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Old 10-06-2008, 11:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ecomodders are smarter than to fall for that BS. Piles of data to support the contrary.

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Old 10-07-2008, 12:23 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH77 View Post
Ecomodders are smarter than to fall for that BS. Piles of data to support the contrary...
I love that quote, from the link in the OP...

Quote:
“Small cars don’t last,” DesRosiers says. “They fail to retain value, utility or desirability."
Hahahaha!

The Honda CiViC is the #1 selling car in America and only depreciate about $800/yr...

Honda Civic Now America's Best-Selling Vehicle - U.S. News Rankings and Reviews
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Old 10-07-2008, 10:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Actually, there is a whole lot more to the cars being thought of as "disposable" than just the engine. A lot go by the wayside when the transmission starts slipping. Of course, most people have never changed the trans filter/fluid in the entire time they have owned the car, and will compain about the cost of a re-build. Also, smaller cars are generally built to be lighter, so use thinner metal on many parts that rusts through more quickly than a heavier car. Again, if people maintain (wash/wax/repair if needed) the body, it will last longer. Note: still not forever...when the frame rusts through, there are some safety issues to examine. Another one that is common, is that people with "cheaper" cars will tend to let little things go. And yes, I have seen it here as well. If the AC is out and it will be $400 to repair, they will let it go and just roll down the windows or remove the belt. Or the power windows go out and they will think it too costly to repair. If the care was not thought of as "disposable"....they would spend the money and time to fix it.

There is some financial sense to be had as well. My general rule is that when a single repair will exceed the book value of the car, it is time for it to go. Since I do 95% of my own wrenching, this is not too often, but it has happened in the past. When My metro got totaled, even if I had bought it back as salvage and chosen to repair the damage, I would have been upside down in the value of the car for more than 40K miles. The value was to look for something else....hence the neon. Was the metro "disposable"....in this case, it might be looked at that way.

Had my pickup sustained the same $$$ amount of damage, it would have been repaired since the cost would only have been a fraction of the value of the truck.

There is some common sense involved too

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Old 10-07-2008, 11:33 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Jamesqf, the toyota 22RE or 22R 4 cyl engine is probably the most durable toyota GAS engine made. I stress GAS because they have some wicked diesels B and 3B come to mind.

Top Gear did a super abusive test to a hilux truck


HOWEVER 3VZ-E the V6 toyota truck engines have quick the known head gasket problems in earlier years.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flydude1221 View Post
My dad is an engine machinist and probably has done more cylinder head reconditioning than anyone else in Canada has seen more 2.8/3.1/3.4 GM V6 cyl heads, Saturn/GM ECOTEC heads, and Neon heads than he could shake a stick at
Two of my 2.8s had blown headgaskets. The one in the Celeb went after the radiator blew out on the freeway. The one in the 6000 wagon was like that when I bought it, but I knew the guy and a blown out radiator caused that one too. The Celeb made a nice excuse to put in a 3.1, more torque and a few better mpg. Would have done that with the 6000 but I couldnt pass up a local 78k 2.8 on ebay for $50, it ran like new.

Others summed this up pretty well. This article also made me think of whats been going on in the towing world, but for the same reason, more profit margin on larger vehicles. Other parts of the world tow safely with smaller vehicles, which many times are more efficient and better handling with a reasonable load behind it than a larger vehicle. But vehicles sold here have much lower tow ratings, sometimes for the same vehicle. The automakers want to you to buy a full size pickup or SUV to tow anything these days.
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Old 10-07-2008, 03:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by flydude1221 View Post
Jamesqf, the toyota 22RE or 22R 4 cyl engine is probably the most durable toyota GAS engine made.
Well, except for that little problem with the timing chain, where if the tensioner goes the engine keeps on running just fine, until the chain chews through the aluminum housing into a water passage :-( Happened to me, with the '84 pickup I had before the '88. (Rebuilt the engine, though, and drove it several more years before I got tired of trying to get the carbed engine to pass the county smog check.)

As for towing, maybe the solution is to re-think just what you need to tow. Haul a couple of kayaks or a small catamaran instead of a large power boat, burn less gas, and have more fun. Even a big tent, camp stove, and all the rest will fit in the average trunk, so why tow a 30 foot trailer?
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Old 10-07-2008, 04:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Yea I forgot about the timing chain issue.
Then there is that darn bolt hidden in the puddle of oil at the front of the head!

As for boats why not have a sailboat
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Old 10-07-2008, 05:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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So, disposing of the little cars will somehow make them environmentally friendly?

There's a GIGANTIC carbon load invested in making that little car. Wouldn't the environmentally-smartest treatment be to run it for as long as it can be possibly made to last? I sure think so.

Take note, ecomodders all over this site are shocking Metros back to life and running them way, way beyond their sell-by date.

Eat it, Detroit. Don't try to scare us into buying cars just because you're in the hole. That's not our fault.
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Old 10-07-2008, 06:46 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Maybe if we stuck to a more modular method of production also, some good examples of this are;
1992-1995 Honda civics and 1994-2001 Acura Integras which are basically the same car
Ford Escort , Mazda Protege and 323 from 1990-?
Neons and PT Cruisers

Automakers need to focus on simple. Honda has only recently started to have "options" on their Honda Civics, and even at that you just pick Trim levels for the most part.

For me I have a problem with imported cars, I mean cars that are produced in countries because of their cheap labour. Imagine how much eco driving you have to do to compensate for the trip your Hyundai took on the ship over.

I like my 14 year old CANADIAN built Honda Civic, and it seems like many people like their CANADIAN built Metros, and Flys
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flydude1221 View Post
I like my 14 year old CANADIAN built Honda Civic, and it seems like many people like their CANADIAN built Metros, and Flys
I wonder, though. Suppose you're a Canadian living in Vancouver. Does it take more energy to ship a Hyundai from Korea on a cargo ship, or to ship an Ontario-built car by rail or truck? A similar question might be asked regarding Americans west of the Continental Divide or thereabouts: is it more energy-efficient to get your new Honda from Ohio or Japan? It'd be interesting to see a map of the world scaled by shipping cost rather than distances or political boundaries.

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