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Old 10-06-2008, 12:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Auto Industry Desperation: “Small Cars Are Disposable and Bad for the Environment”

The auto industry is beginning to look more and more like a crooked politician with lies and deceptive statistics. Everyone knows the industry is hurting recently: gas prices are up, vehicle miles are down, people are buying less, and people are buying smaller. All of this means that car companies are making a lot less [...]

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Old 10-06-2008, 01:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Are these the same morons who said a Prius would only last 109,000 miles, while a Hummer would last 379,000 miles?
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Haha, probably Clev!
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Hello -

The biggest joke of all is that steel is one of the most recycled products on earth, regardless of it's source :

Steel Recycling
Quote:
Statistics Steel Products Recycling Rates (1996)
* Steel Cans 58.2 percent
* Appliances 76.4 percent
* Automobiles 97.9 percent
This guy must have been selling sub-prime loans and credit default swaps in his previous job.

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Old 10-06-2008, 03:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Actually, most modern cars are pretty well built and will, if cared for, last 200k miles.

What is true though is that a "smaller, cheaper" car is not always the best choice depending on it's useage.

People who are going to keep a vehicle until the warranty runs out, and then trade them in on a new one are going to balance the initial cost of the vehicle with it's short term depreciation.

People who "drive them into the ground" are likely to be less worried about initial cost and more about the reputation for longevity and inexpensive repairs,

Most smaller "cheaper" cars do not fall well into the latter category. Partially because of reputation (think of the rep of Yugos or early Hundais) that they must contend with, and partially because the cost percentage of a repair is somewhat greater. People will tend to put a $1000 repair into a car worth $8000 well before they will put it into a car worth $3000.

I am not saying that "economy" cars are a bad choice or unreliable. These are just observations from when I was turning wrenches.

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Old 10-06-2008, 07:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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mavin is very right. being a neon owner myself, I saw some go away to the yard early from the headgasket issues. The ones that survived are still running today. There are some buttugly first gens out there, some completely paintless. That stuff chips off in chunks. I see the same paint problem with chevy trucks. It also depends on the consumer, some people see a headgasket as the kiss of death, I see it as an excuse to modify
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Old 10-06-2008, 07:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getnpsi View Post
It also depends on the consumer, some people see a headgasket as the kiss of death, I see it as an excuse to modify
In the Honda CiViC world - with their open-deck engine design - it's the Kiss of Death for the engine, but NOT the car!

It's a well documented fact that replacing a head gasket in a Honda is a total waste of money, e.g. you're better off buying a replacement engine!

As you implied (ahem) it's also an excellent excuse for a hot engine swap...
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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BlackDeuceCoupe you are right on the money! but really I have no heard of many honda d series head gasket issues. In comparison with Saturn and GM with their lost foam casting cylinder head (porosity problems) and first gen neons there are hardly any d series head gasket issues.
I have personally overheated a d series on several occasions and never had an issue.

My dad is an engine machinist and probably has done more cylinder head reconditioning than anyone else in Canada has seen more 2.8/3.1/3.4 GM V6 cyl heads, Saturn/GM ECOTEC heads, and Neon heads than he could shake a stick at, his shop does all the dealer heads in London Ont. I could go on about what engines he sees alot of but one that he does not see are Honda engines, and if he does the honda heads are so nice that they usually do not even need to have 0.030" planed to take the warp out of the head surface.

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Old 10-06-2008, 10:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flydude1221 View Post
BlackDeuceCoupe you are right on the money! but really I have no heard of many honda d series head gasket issues...
Yep! There's NOTHING wrong with Honda head gaskets!

The thing is, a blown head gasket in a Honda CiViC is the net result of a lot of other problems, e.g. the head gasket is usually last thing to go, not the first - and by then, the rest of the motor is owned. Sure, you can fix the head gasket, but the rods, pistons, rings, wrist-pins, blah, blah, blah, have all lost their temper (from overheating) and are shot!

Typically what happens is, you get your car running again, but now you got rod slap, leaks, blue smoke coming out the tailpipe, and all the rest of it.

LoL!

Then, the head gasket goes again... or a rod blows, et cetera.

You're just way ahead of the game replacing the whole motor - and it's cheaper!
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I would really like to see some statistics on this. I know I see a lot of '80s and early '90s Honda Civics & CRXs on the roads, as well as Toyota pickups of the same age. (Heck, I OWN an '88 Toyota, and drove a CRX before buying my Insight.) So it ought to be fairly easy to e.g. pull out current registration numbers for those and see what percentage of those sold are still on the roads, and compare the result with some of those larger models.

PS: A quick check of the local Craigslist, for the first week of October. I looked for 1980s pickups: there were 4 Fords, average asking price $2380; 1 Chevy, $7900 (but the guy sounds like a real optimist :-)); and 7 Toyotas, $3742 average. More Toyotas than Ford & Chevy combined, at a higher average price.


Last edited by jamesqf; 10-06-2008 at 11:40 PM..
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