Back to simplicity: Would carbureted ethanol-only cars pass new car emission tests?

[Big time]

With cars becoming more complex

Would a new car designed to be run only on ethanol (E85 or E70 blends) equipped with a carburetor
Carburetor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Posted that in case younger members don't know what a carburetor is.

Suppose the car has a electronic jets in its carburetor, an oxygen sensor, secondary air injection (smog pump)
Secondary air injection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and catalytic converters if necessary

Would that pass new car emission controls as ethanol is much more clean burning?
Are there laws allowing less stringent emission tests for Ethanol-only new cars?

New cars are said to consume more oil to build than the fuel they will burn in their lifetime.
So to be truly green a new car not only needs to burn little fuel, it also must be long-lasting, easy and cheap to repair.

If so, then it looks like the 70s oil crisis was "solved" wrong
Instead of warmongering the middle East to TRY to get cheap oil then the solution was to continue with landyachts but convert them to ethanol and reforest American deserts.

[jamesqf]

Ever worked on a carburetor? They are not simple.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

It might not be impossible for a carburettor-fed car to get approved in an emissions test, but probably a turbocharger would help on that matter. I'm aware of some Volkswagen EA-827 engines which actually had cleaner emissions than stock ones. But if you wanna go with electronic jets and Oxygen sensor, just get a regular EFI.

[niky]

Originally Posted by Big time

New cars are said to consume more oil to build than the fuel they will burn in their lifetime.

The price of a car is often reflective of the resources used to build it. That a gasoline powered car can use more than its worth in fuel over its lifetime, even considering that taxes and profit margins on fuel are much lower, as it is sold in bulk, speaks volumes about where more oil is used in a car's manufacture.

(Also note the high level of plastic, rubber and steel recycling in a modern car.)

[freebeard]

If so, then it looks like the 70s oil crisis was "solved" wrong
Instead of warmongering the middle East to TRY to get cheap oil then the solution was to continue with landyachts but convert them to ethanol and reforest American deserts.

It's not just that. Using your petro purchasing power to squabble with other folks is also WRONG.

'landyachts'? Let me introduce your to the 1949 Nash Airflyte.

[101Volts]

This brings up something; I drove Boxy (1984 Chevrolet Caprice Classic Sedan) today and I felt something about it that isn't really quite the same as the 2000 Caravan, Being carbureted and riding in a different way than the Caravan; I felt so relaxed driving it that I was feeling as if I was falling asleep, Then I turned on the air. What is it about older cars? I also felt like enjoying the ride and it reminds me of that Andy Griffith Show episode in which Andy and Barney are just riding in Barney's 1960 Ford Edsel (Which would get about 8 to 12 MPG stock) singing their high school football team theme song.

And the last tank of fuel was 18.5ish MPG, Which isn't above EPA HWY figures but it is higher than some brand new cars get today.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Big time

If so, then it looks like the 70s oil crisis was "solved" wrong
Instead of warmongering the middle East to TRY to get cheap oil...

You do know that the '70s oil embargo really wasn't about oil at all: oil was just a weapon used in a dispute that was (and still is) fundamentally about religious and ethnic differences. (That much is history: further comment would descend into politics, so I'll refrain.)

To the original point, EFI systems are much simpler than carburetors, especially the ones used on automobiles from the mid-50s on. If you've ever taken one apart, you'll have seen that they're a maze of passages filled with jets, valves, springs and such, which all have to be sized right - and clean - to function properly. Then you have to painstakingly adjust things by hand to get mixture & idle speed correct, except that 'correct' only holds for a particular elevation & temperature range. And don't even get me started on trying to balance multiple carbs...

EFI is brilliantly simple by contrast: a simple pump squirts a measured amount of fuel into the cylinder, while a sensor measures the exhaust and uses a feedback loop to correct the amount.

[elhigh]

To answer the OP's question, maybe. It sounds like you're describing the old electronic feedback carburetors, which were the last thing before TBI (and frankly not too different in my opinion). It would depend on how stringent the emissions regulations are where you're talking about trying it. Where I live, there aren't any emissions regulations so sure, go for it.

I strongly disagree with anyone saying EFI is simpler than carburetors. Nothing could be further from the facts. EFI - Electronic Fuel Injection - requires fast computers, multiple sensor inputs and fast injector solenoids.

Carburetors rely on physics. Unless you're S.M. Stirling, you're in the clear forever. A high-altitude nuclear strike will cook your EFI while nothing short of a direct lightning bolt (or a solid whack with a big hammer) will disrupt the function of your carburetor. Yes, they fall away from the ideal depending on conditions. For the most part however, as long as YOU can breathe, the car can too. Sure, it takes some sophisticated engineering to make a good carburetor, but I'd like to point out that that was done decades ago by people whose main computing power was slide rules and an experienced eye.

I'm one of those people who really likes having a full-size spare in the vehicle. Carburetors are near and dear to me for their reliable underpinnings. If my carb stops working, I can probably figure it out and fix it with my hands, with tools that grip and turn. If my EFI quits working, my first resource is ordering a new computer. How is THAT taking ownership of one's equipment?

Also: if you're running E85, you can brew your own fuel! That's seriously taking ownership right there.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by elhigh

Carburetors are near and dear to me for their reliable underpinnings. If my carb stops working, I can probably figure it out and fix it with my hands, with tools that grip and turn. If my EFI quits working, my first resource is ordering a new computer. How is THAT taking ownership of one's equipment?

That's why I still trust carburettors for some applications in harsher environments more than an EFI.

[101Volts]

So would some of these fuel injection cars work as well as this 1966 Ford after 30+ years in a field, For example?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D0v4qznPwA