Bicycling wastes gas?

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by theycallmeebryan

So riding my Ninja 250 is more efficient than riding a bike fueled by pinto beans.... interesting!

It's more cost efficient assuming you bike at ~15mph. The actual efficiency figures in terms of energy are different and much higher IIRC.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Christ

Fuel for fuel, there probably are instances where it's actually cheaper to run a car, even if you don't consider the actual impact of each fuel source.

That's true, but it's a minimum of two passengers, run on a compact diesel using WVO IIRC to get to see lower costs than a frugal cyclist/shopper. Everything else is more expensive.

Originally Posted by Christ

Remember, food takes more fuel to make, deliver, buy, and consume than fuel does.

That's not necessarily true. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. It depends on the fuel versus the food.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob

However, if you don't exercise, the energy needed for your medical treatments can cost far more oil.

I don't think this is necessarily true. It'll cost far more money, medical treatment is expensive, but it may not be that oil intensive AFAIK.

[NiHaoMike]

What are the efficiency figures for a PHEV bicycle?

[roflwaffle]

The energy efficiency of using electricity is pretty high, about equal to an all rice/beans diet. IIRC, rice/beans provide ~1-2calories of energy for every calorie of FF needed to get them to the table. The absolute best for food then is ~10-20 calories of FF per mile. Depending on the regional electrical mix, the well to wheel efficiency of electricity in the states is ~25-50%, so that places an e-bike at ~10-20 calories of FF per mile. If someone has a solar panel system, or even just a panel they charge alternate battery packs with, then there are effectively no FFs used for the fuel. Even a 100mpg, a vehicle is still at ~350 calories of FF per mile, so we would need to approach ~1000-2000mpg to see similar energy efficiency compared to a frugal/electric cyclist.

[TimG]

Besides fact-checking the figures they use for food, one should also use the REAL cost of gasoline, not what we pay at the pump. There are numerous subsidies to the oil companies, plus other hidden costs that make the real cost much higher. The best study I know of is over ten years old and had the minimum cost at $5.60 then, so add some to that to get the minimum now. The estimate varies widely depending on, for example, what percentage of our defense budget is protection of oil interests and how much is all the rest. We are fighting two wars in (coincidentally?) the oil-rich middle east, no one with a brain concludes that protection of oil interests is not included in those actions. Link to the study and another article:

http://www.icta.org/doc/Real%20Price...20Gasoline.pdf

Sustainable Living: True cost of pumping gas: $10 a gallon | recordonline.com

[JacobAziza]

I totally agree with everything you said, but to be fair, American farms get major subsidies too

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by TimG

We are fighting two wars in (coincidentally?) the oil-rich middle east, no one with a brain concludes that protection of oil interests is not included in those actions.

I may not have a brain, but I can at least count up to one. Which is the number of wars we're fighting. One war against one enemy, Islam, with combat taking place in many locations.

As for oil interests being any major factor, try a thought experiment. Subtract oil from the equation of the Middle East - say the deposits were under Argentina or Australia instead - and see if the situation changes much at all. Then try a similar experiment, removing Islam.

[thatguitarguy]

I keep waiting for this thread to die.

The topic seemed to be tongue in cheek to start with, but people who want to justify their wasteful behavior want to take it seriously, and it gets more ignorant and argumentative the farther it gets off topic.

Oh well...

[Grant-53]

It's more than economics macro or micro. It's about culture, geography, and one's view of the world. It's about who and what we believe to be true. It's about how we see ourselves and what we believe others think of us. Some decisions we make are rational in terms of time and money. Others are made based on how we feel and what intagibles we value. Most of us are fortunate enough to have a choice between driving a car, taking public transit, riding a bicycle or motorcycle, or walking. I am amused that people drive to the mall to power walk or gym to spin on an exercise bike.
We pay for convenience when we drive a car and for a variety of reasons having a car available to us is nearly a necessity in North America. I would like to have a streamlined motorcycle that gets 500 mpg or a bicycle that I can ride at 30 mph and carry on a bus or train. I would like to weigh 50 lbs less than I do today. Most likely I will be able to make a fairing for my city bike and use it enough to lose the weight. My cars might be modified to improve fuel mileage by 20%. Riding a bike is arguably the most efficient means of transportation in terms of energy conversion. The cost of obtaining that energy is a matter of energy accounting and varies with supply and demand. To make moral judgments is to examine ones values concerning good and evil. Good is best defined by the wisdom and mercies of God. Evil is pure selfishness.
In the economic analysis I made for my former 60 mile commute I figured average annual costs including my time for a small car, scooter, 250cc motorcycle, and a streamlined bicycle. My car cost over 50 cents/mile and the motorcycle tied with the bike at 35 cents a mile. I settled on keeping the car and modifying my current bicycle then looked for a job closer to home.