Big bumper or small? (VW Golf Mk2)

[G2TDI]

Originally Posted by geeteethree

The one I used is from a '95 SEAT Toledo, but are also found on Mk3 Golfs. There is a good thread on the subject with part numbers on ClubGTI

Happy hunting
Grant

Yeah while I personally know the Seat Toledo quite well (I pulled a complete TDI ones out of one for a Mk2 TDI project as a matter of fact) this continent was never blessed with any VAG brands other than VW & Audi

It would appear this is what you're talking about:
Vehicle- spare parts for VOLKSWAGEN Golf 1997 Êóçîâ Îáøèâêà__Ïîë â ñáîðå__Çâóêîèçîëÿöèÿ - Catalog of vehicle spare parts and prices on-line

[COcyclist]

TDI cars in the U.S. came with that as a sound damper under the engine but I believe it helps with aerodynamics as well. The radiators and engine bay are turbulent, drag inducing areas. Many Ecomodders have started with an engine cover as the first steps in developing a belly pan, or just used them on their own.

[G2TDI]

Originally Posted by COcyclist

TDI cars in the U.S. came with that as a sound damper under the engine but I believe it helps with aerodynamics as well. The radiators and engine bay are turbulent, drag inducing areas. Many Ecomodders have started with an engine cover as the first steps in developing a belly pan, or just used them on their own.

Yes however most TDIs in NA are Mk4 and newer. The Mk3 (from which this cover is) are pretty rare and only the Jettas came with TDI. Well since the part exists there's no point in "re-inventing the wheel" on this one. While I am interested in hypermiling I will not make a car look like some do just for aero reasons

[COcyclist]

That is a nice thing about well designed belly pan/rear diffuser. It doesn't really change the appearance of the car.

FWIW, I replaced the plastic lower engine cover with an aluminum skidplate and added coroplast extensions in front of the front tires. Perhaps a used Mk IV engine cover could be modified for a Mk III?

[G2TDI]

Originally Posted by lunarhighway

i think the main reason for the bifferent bumper is that the golf was a long running model that needed a new face... aerodinamically it might incorporate more of an airdam than the original "clasic" configuration, but with the adition of an airdam i think both setups will likely be comparable. the main thing indeed would be a front undertray.

Yes I agree, but if aero is more or less same then weight will be more on the big bumper so thereby being worse for this purpose.

Originally Posted by lunarhighway

also with a front undertray a very low airdam might not be needed. aerodynamic modern cars often have a raised airdam in the center, alowing a more smooth transition to the undertray, rather than be harch to the air. so if you go for modern aero, the old bumper might give you more freedom, while the "modern" bumper has the 'low tech' airdam function build in (vs more advanced undertray)... on the other hand, you can't be sure untill you test it that with a relative rough underside, a classic airdam isn't better than a partial undertray... or that perhaps the plastic airdam provides easier undertray attachment...

The car will be lowered regardless of what style I will do.

Originally Posted by lunarhighway

the advantages of the newer bumper might be better crash protection, to a small degree... and also cosmetic protection (the lower metal work might dent but the plastic might not on a minor impact, and if it's destroyed it can be replaced)... not fe related, but something to take into account perhaps.

Well yeah but with most cars on this continent being a lot bigger and heavier anyway I don't think small or large bumper will be very different from safety aspect.

[ChrstphrR]

Originally Posted by COcyclist

That is a nice thing about well designed belly pan/rear diffuser. It doesn't really change the appearance of the car.

FWIW, I replaced the plastic lower engine cover with an aluminum skidplate and added coroplast extensions in front of the front tires. Perhaps a used Mk IV engine cover could be modified for a Mk III?

There are plates made for the Mk II/III as well, at least, also in aluminum.

I quick checked dieselgeek.com stateside, they don't list one, however, up in B.C., Canada, Evolution Imports does.

Panzer Skid Plates by www.dieselgeek.com

Evo Imports - Volkswagen Skid Plates

Checking with a local stealership or perhaps, one of the folks on Vortex or TDIclub that have access to the parts system (ETKA) could look up and see if there's a stock pan available in plastic, or steel.

The two pans that they show at Evo Imports are quite different sizes, and likely they would be different mounting points for the two different chassis.

As COCyclist would know, the mounts for the Aluminum Mk IV pan mount on the suspension crossmember at the back, and on two posts off the frame rails up front. The plastic pan from the MkIV mounts differently, sort-of tucking in with the side skirts and the front valance under the bumper.

Buying the sized AL plate, or fabricating your own would probably be better than starting with a Mk IV part fitted to the Mk II or III chassis.

[G2TDI]

Originally Posted by ChrstphrR

There are plates made for the Mk II/III as well, at least, also in aluminum.

I quick checked dieselgeek.com stateside, they don't list one, however, up in B.C., Canada, Evolution Imports does.

Panzer Skid Plates by www.dieselgeek.com

Evo Imports - Volkswagen Skid Plates

Yeah but I am not looking to protect the engine, I'd just use a steel oil pan on the TDI engine instead. The cover would be for AERO purposes in this case so the plastic would be to prefer for weight purposes.

Originally Posted by ChrstphrR

There
Checking with a local stealership or perhaps, one of the folks on Vortex or TDIclub that have access to the parts system (ETKA) could look up and see if there's a stock pan available in plastic, or steel.

I have the parts prg right here the part in question is this one:
Genuine VW / Audi SOUND ABSO (1H0-825-235-J / 1H0825235J)

Seems the US might have had it on the Mk3 Convertibles also, so that might be relatively common (in my area) ironically.

Stock pan in plastic? No never heard of that but yes steel replacement ones I have. But again this topic isn't about protecting the oilpan but WEIGHT and AERO

Originally Posted by ChrstphrR

The two pans that they show at Evo Imports are quite different sizes, and likely they would be different mounting points for the two different chassis.

Not sure what you are talking about but there are three options of pans for the TDI, all alu, part alu w/steel flat bottom, and ALL steel. All for the Mk4 TDI engines. But again, that is *not* the topic here

Originally Posted by ChrstphrR

As COCyclist would know, the mounts for the Aluminum Mk IV pan mount on the suspension crossmember at the back, and on two posts off the frame rails up front. The plastic pan from the MkIV mounts differently, sort-of tucking in with the side skirts and the front valance under the bumper.

Pan? Sounds like your using the terms pan and plates as synonyms? I am pretty sure there's no plastic pan on the market for VW's if I am wrong please show me

Originally Posted by ChrstphrR

Buying the sized AL plate, or fabricating your own would probably be better than starting with a Mk IV part fitted to the Mk II or III chassis.

I think we have a few things confused here:

A) The SOUND ABSORB PLASTIC COVER (<- that's what it is by def) would be used here for AERO purposes soley!

B) I am not looking for solutions to protect my oil pan, for that the steel pan is the solution despite it being 1lb more, I do think "wasting" 1lb of weight is worth it to ensure keeping engine oil safely in the lowered car

C) You seem to be talking about oil PAN and skid PLATE back and forth, and again the COVER (won't call it a plate since it is plastic and not there to protect anything except from dirt) topic was touched on here for AERODYNAMIC purposes only.

This is the OIL pan I will be using

..and here is the part alu part steel pan:


But let's not get off the topic with this now ok? We are talking about aero, and I appreciate the suggestions of using the Mk3 PLASTIC COVER as most of the time Mk3 parts like that fit very well on Mk2 and for this purpose we are just covering it up to not let air flow in there, and hurt the aero properties.

[ChrstphrR]

Ah, gotcha - if you're going with steel or hybrid steel-AL oilpan, yes, the fancy skidplates won't be needed. I'll carefully stick to plate referring to the flat bits, not the oilpan to reduce confusion.

I'll still advise against trying to hunt down the MkIV plastic cover for your aero-smoothing. It's meant for MkIV mounting points which are a different animal from the MkII.

And, you'll likely have to add wings anyway, like COCyclist did on his, to cover the bits the cover anyway. I did too, for that matter: I made a perf-steel equivalent for my MkIV, with the added wings between bumper and inner-fenders, with the intent of coroplast skinning it later. (I've been remiss on sorting the photos, putting the measurements to CAD as intended... Sorry! And it's a different chassis than you're intending to use).

You could probably fab your own bellypan cleaner looking to both air and eye, as well as lower cost than adapting stock parts to a different chassis -- even if you're sourcing the part from a salvage yard.

Save your money for more durable plastic than coroplast, perhaps, but there's no way a basic sheet of plastic is going to cost as much as that OEM part new!

[G2TDI]

Originally Posted by ChrstphrR

Ah, gotcha - if you're going with steel or hybrid steel-AL oilpan, yes, the fancy skidplates won't be needed. I'll carefully stick to plate referring to the flat bits, not the oilpan to reduce confusion.

No I am using the ALL STEEL pan, as indicated and shown above, not the ALU/Steel one, that one is pretty pointless in my opin.

Well yeah a pan is a pan and a plate is a plate, one you make food in the other you eat it off

But again TOPIC is AERODYNAMICS!

Originally Posted by ChrstphrR

I'll still advise against trying to hunt down the MkIV plastic cover for your aero-smoothing. It's meant for MkIV mounting points which are a different animal from the MkII.

I have no clue where you got the idea of a Mk4 cover!? We are talking Mk3 & Seat cover (not to be confused with what you stick your behind on! ). Yes Mk4 & Mk2 are very different, but that is not the case with Mk3, the Mk3 actually even shares the wheelbase and a lot of parts with the Mk2. Again, nowhere have we been talking about Mk4 covers. Nor would I have to "hunt" for those, I have both a plastic OE and a steel OE cover laying around here for the Mk4!

Originally Posted by ChrstphrR

And, you'll likely have to add wings anyway, like COCyclist did on his, to cover the bits the cover anyway. I did too, for that matter: I made a perf-steel equivalent for my MkIV, with the added wings between bumper and inner-fenders, with the intent of coroplast skinning it later. (I've been remiss on sorting the photos, putting the measurements to CAD as intended... Sorry! And it's a different chassis than you're intending to use).

Well I do think we are off topic here, and I would suggest you read the above posts and see the pics and links you might be able to see that we are talking about Mk3 cover on a Mk2.

Originally Posted by ChrstphrR

You could probably fab your own bellypan cleaner looking to both air and eye, as well as lower cost than adapting stock parts to a different chassis -- even if you're sourcing the part from a salvage yard.

Sigh, I am not looking for a "bellypan" AKA plate!?

Originally Posted by ChrstphrR

Save your money for more durable plastic than coroplast, perhaps, but there's no way a basic sheet of plastic is going to cost as much as that OEM part new!

Well whenever there are OE parts to be had I will go with them, in this case Mk3 PLASTIC cover which has already been proven to work well on Mk2s as the above commenter so graciously informed us.

For the Mk4 we have I have the OE steel plate (not installed at this time yet) but I don't want any "home made plates" when there are OE to be had!

[geeteethree]

If you do have access to EKTA, the part number on my undertray is 1LO 825 235, very similar to the one listed above. Please note that my one does not have the service access shaped around the sump.