Black & Green modding thread (1998 Civic DX Coupe base)

[jimmylomax]

Hi. I've been stalking for quite a long time. Thanks for everything I finally got around to installing my alternator bypass (thanks for the tutorial, btw). I, too, installed the Odyssey PC1200 AGM. Is your battery and charger still working well? Did you ever measure the actual current output from your charger (I’m assuming you at least measured the input side since you have the watt-meter)?

It seems the charger you bought seems to have been pulled from the market and the Odyssey approved suppliers list ]ODYSSEY battery - Ultimizer wasn’t updated.


I ended up buying what I thought was a similar microprocessor-controlled Schumacher/EnerSys 12A model which you would think would put out about 30% of nominal 42 AH rating in Amps. But when I put my meter on it the maximum I have observed is about 6.2A (I’ve tested in various conditions at different temperatures and states of charge - I'm guessing it puts out 6A @ 12V and 12A @ 6V). I’ve been running it for a couple months now and lately it seems the battery is depleting faster on my same commute; I’m worried I’ve damaged the battery with sulfate on the plates and want act quickly to try and knock it off as well as possible. At first I would never get the low voltage dash light on and now it comes on regularly before I get home (know what triggers it on Hondas?... I think it is probably something like dropping to ~11.9V for over 30s while discharging.)

With my tail between my legs, I’m now out to fix what I think I probably did wrong and get a proper charger adhering to your/Odyssey’s rule-of-thumb suggestion of having at least 40% current output of nominal amp-hour rating.

Interestingly, I have an older Schumacher non-solid-state charger that claims to put out 10 Amps and, iirc, I think I measured around 2 amps from it. Both chargers are using the bolt on ring terminals to the battery, but I am still using the grossly undersized (for 12A anyway) quick disconnect that does heat up considerably. Now that I write this and think more about it, I will eliminate that as root cause Monday night.

[California98Civic]

Yes, everything works remarkably well still. I could not be happier. During my initial troubles with the battery set up, a few years ago now I guess, the most important features of the set up that I did not predict/understand about the switch to an onboard charger and deep cycle battery were the affect of heat on the battery itself and the importance of sufficient amperage. Eventually, Odyssey generously worked out a deal with me, and I got a battery with the metal sheathing to protect against heat separation of the plates. Second, I got the 25 amp charger to desulfinate the battery. They charged me for some of it, but at a discount, IIRC.

The charger is a three stage 25 amp unit, and it still works perfectly. The battery is in fab shape. But I have a practice of not allowing it to discharge all that low.

Bummer they don't sell the charger anymore. There must be others that can do the same task. My sense is that the most important consideration is a charger that had amp output at least 40% of the battery ahr rating and the three stage ability. Mine is more like 60% the ahr rating.

I don't recall anymore what I tested with the multimeter, sorry. But you are right that I was checking with the multimeter a lot, especially when I was trying to understand what was failing (before the current set-up).

[jimmylomax]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

... the most important features of the set up that I did not predict/understand about the switch to an onboard charger and deep cycle battery were the affect of heat on the battery itself and the importance of sufficient amperage. ... I got a battery with the metal sheathing to protect against heat separation of the plates. []

I have a practice of not allowing it to discharge all that low.

[]

Thanks. I did not get the metal jacket. Is this essentially an external heat sink? I guess I could make one pretty simply. Do you have an idea of what temperature threshold to keep under? I still haven't implemented my warm-air intake, but I was planning on running it right around the battery, I could play with having some intake holes to try and draw air across the battery and into the combustion air. I haven't even measured temps on the battery but will do it with my infrared gun this week. Any time I've had to run headlights (which is almost never) I've left alternator running (which is still only about 50% of the trip due to eoc)

Re low SOC: how do you determine your depth of discharge? I'm a bit ignorant here. I've done a basic estimate of my loads with engine running which give me an AH load estimate, but haven't measured anything to verify. The charger I bought estimates the depth of discharge, but I'm not sure how accurate it is. (it usually shows about 75% capacity at the end of the day. I've been down around 60 a couple times) I suppose that in conjunction with the watt-meter and many samples should yield some sort of decent formula.


edit 8/6: I just did a 9 mile trip. after getting home I observed very little heat on the long side of the battery with my hand. I used wire nuts to install the clamp instead of quick disconnect with rings terminals to battery and observed 5.3A max charging. Will continue to monitor.

[tcaud]

Fascinating stuff. I think I mean to implement the air dam and wheel well skirts on my Corolla. Alternator delete sounds impractical because I do Uber/Grubhub, along with a number of others you mentioned. Might be really impractical to remove the Corolla back seats... on the other hand the whole reason I have the Corolla is convenience, so I guess I shouldn't go that far

I'm wondering if it would be possible to implement the wheel skirts without drilling... maybe with clips and straps?

I think the front dam would be the real challenge. I'd consider a grill block but I'd fear overheating.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by tcaud

Fascinating stuff. I think I mean to implement the air dam and wheel well skirts on my Corolla. Alternator delete sounds impractical because I do Uber/Grubhub, along with a number of others you mentioned. Might be really impractical to remove the Corolla back seats... on the other hand the whole reason I have the Corolla is convenience, so I guess I shouldn't go that far

I'm wondering if it would be possible to implement the wheel skirts without drilling... maybe with clips and straps?

I think the front dam would be the real challenge. I'd consider a grill block but I'd fear overheating.

Coolant temperatures do have to be monitored carefully. But I have never gotten even close to overheating. My air dam occasionally scrapes and ive had to reinstall it once or twice. My wheel skirts have been attached without any drilling into the body I made clips spare metal copper piping and such.

[California98Civic]

$349.00, shipped and delivered. 12 pounds (approx) with 2 really good LRR Firestone 175/65-R15 tires (& two mystery brand tires). First new year car resolution accomplished. I have shopped for these for at least three years. The wheels themselves are in very good shape and all center caps.

[freebeard]

Nice. Are you going to replace the mystery tires?

If you Plastidip them now, they will stay nice.

[California98Civic]

I will probably investigae the tires and run them anyway. They are in good share and already mounted. The cost of removal anbd replacement would eat-up savings. I need to get time to investigate them.

Plastidip in a good idea. I'll consider that, but I like OEM silver wheels.

[freebeard]

https://www.dipyourcar.com/search?ty...uct&q=aluminum

[California98Civic]

I like the kits they advertise a lot. Thanks for that. I hadn't seen these before. I used plasti dip in other applications on my car, and I found 2 really significant limitations that make me wonder about painting wheels or anything else with it. I wonder what you think. Plasti dip first of all has always peeled for me in the end and I would worry about rocks and stuff knocking off bits of it. Second, the black plasti dip I have used always faded in the end because it doesn't seem to be UV stable. I've seen people passingly talk about using a clear coat, but that seems like it would turn the layer of plasti dip into something that is not very removable but more like hard paint. Maybe that's good, but one of the advantages of course of plasti dip that it's relatively easy to remove.