Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-04-2019, 03:21 PM   #141 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 228

The Leaf - '17 Nissan Leaf SL

Outback - '16 Subaru Outback

Vaquero - '20 Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Vaquero ABS
Thanks: 144
Thanked 84 Times in 61 Posts
Will I be able to get an all electric Gladiator at $10k less? I do not believe so, given the slow rollout they did to get the Wrangler hybrid out.

I have compared sizes of many vehicles and if the Tesla has the same footprint as a crewcab 6.5ft bed F-150 (which it does from all info I have collected so far), that is about as large as I want to go. A Ram 2500 is a bit bigger than I want.

The fact that the Tesla Cybertruck will be cheaper than the Model Y and hold as many people and looks like room in the bed for my motorcycle... I think I am good with the size.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-04-2019, 03:40 PM   #142 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,602

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.58 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,308
Thanked 3,635 Times in 2,721 Posts
A new vehicle never pencils out financially, so the discussion has nothing to do with what is a good financial move.

Solar panel bed cover is retarded. Another gimmick someone that has a hard time spending all their money can purchase.

Why anyone would buy full self drive when it isn't available yet is beyond me. Also, it "locks in" the price, as if in the future technology gets more expensive, which has almost never happened. Why lock in $7k for something that doesn't exist, when in the future the working version will probably be $4k (WAG).

I like the mid-range CyberTruck since it adds more range, AWD, and more towing/power/payload for a $10k price bump.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!

Last edited by redpoint5; 12-04-2019 at 03:48 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
Xist (12-04-2019)
Old 12-04-2019, 04:07 PM   #143 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 2,457

Dark Egg - '12 VW Touraeg
Thanks: 247
Thanked 1,064 Times in 726 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldjessee00 View Post
Will I be able to get an all electric Gladiator at $10k less? I do not believe so, given the slow rollout they did to get the Wrangler hybrid out.

I have compared sizes of many vehicles and if the Tesla has the same footprint as a crewcab 6.5ft bed F-150 (which it does from all info I have collected so far), that is about as large as I want to go. A Ram 2500 is a bit bigger than I want.

The fact that the Tesla Cybertruck will be cheaper than the Model Y and hold as many people and looks like room in the bed for my motorcycle... I think I am good with the size.
A f150 is the same physical size as a F250. A Ram 1500 is the same size as a 2500, and the Tesla is similar too. What the Tesla must have to claim a 3500 pound payload is a 10,000 pound GVWR at LEAST which means it's a 2500 or 3500 series pickup nit a 1500. It also will weigh more than my 2500 Suburban does as a model X is only 200 pounds lighter.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Hersbird For This Useful Post:
Xist (12-04-2019)
Old 12-04-2019, 05:07 PM   #144 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 228

The Leaf - '17 Nissan Leaf SL

Outback - '16 Subaru Outback

Vaquero - '20 Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Vaquero ABS
Thanks: 144
Thanked 84 Times in 61 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
A new vehicle never pencils out financially, so the discussion has nothing to do with what is a good financial move.

Solar panel bed cover is retarded. Another gimmick someone that has a hard time spending all their money can purchase.

Why anyone would buy full self drive when it isn't available yet is beyond me. Also, it "locks in" the price, as if in the future technology gets more expensive, which has almost never happened. Why lock in $7k for something that doesn't exist, when in the future the working version will probably be $4k (WAG).

I like the mid-range CyberTruck since it adds more range, AWD, and more towing/power/payload for a $10k price bump.
Yet people buy new vehicles all the time... and if they didn't, no used vehicles would exist. As I stated, there are many things that go in to the decision to buy a new vehicle, if you never buy new, that is your decision for your reasons, but if you do not see that someone else could make a different decision, then no reason to discuss that further.

As for the solar panel over the bed, as it will be mostly in my case (the bed will be empty enough to keep the cover over it most of the time), if it could add even 7 miles a day, that is half my commute. Worth it to me.

My house roof is shaded by trees on both the east and the west, and in winter, to the south (due to the low angle of the sun) for part of the day (in the winter, most of the day), making the analysis of adding solar panels to my roof always come out not cost effective.

The solar panel on the truck when I drive to work I could park it so it would get direct sunlight the entire time I was at work.

Tesla has stated that as their autonomous software starts to roll out more features, they will charge more for it. And given the automotive industry to charge huge amounts for the smallest options ($2,500 for a improved radio, which is kind of a waste for someone like me who used to work on helicopters and doesn't hear well enough to make that additional money worth it), I am not sure if the autonomous features will follow general software pricing. Also that they expect people to use this software option to generate income, I think there is a good chance they will keep the price as high as they can.

I can understand why people do not want to buy full self driving.

As I age and have seen medical issues and/or medicine make driving dangerous, I can foresee a time within this vehicles lifespan that I might be in a condition where having self driving might be handy. Even if it never fully drives from point A to point B, the help it could provide making it safer for all driving and/or cover some of the highway driving would be worth it to me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2019, 05:22 PM   #145 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 228

The Leaf - '17 Nissan Leaf SL

Outback - '16 Subaru Outback

Vaquero - '20 Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Vaquero ABS
Thanks: 144
Thanked 84 Times in 61 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
So how would those fulfill the use case of replacing a family station wagon?
Are you asking me? I want a passenger vehicle that will transport up to four adults comfortably on a road trip as well as people be able to bring luggage or such with them. Folding seats and the ability to carry more cargo is also important. Towing 4,000 lbs and being AWD are some other features I like having.

No one is delivering an electric AWD station wagon. VW says it will (ID Space Vizzion) and maybe Volvo will also (XC60 EV or XC90 EV), but currently they do not. I have been looking at them, but I have not seen any dates for release or customer unit shipping...

If Subaru announced in the next three years an Outback with 300+ mile range with CCS charging, the same interior space/towing capacity, and cost within $10k of the price I bought the last Outback for, then I would get this EV Outback. I would get a refund for my deposit on the Cybertruck.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2019, 05:51 PM   #146 (permalink)
Not Doug
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 10,756

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 33.43 mpg (US)

Gramps - '04 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 33.15 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7,021
Thanked 2,007 Times in 1,531 Posts
What is the ROI on $2,500 for 7 miles a day? How does that tiny amount of charge balance with your truck being warmer because you parked it in the sun? How often do you take road trips with four adults and luggage? How often do you drive and need AWD?

Rich people problems...
__________________
"Oh if you use math, reason, and logic you will be hated."--OilPan4
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Xist For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (12-04-2019)
Old 12-04-2019, 06:07 PM   #147 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 228

The Leaf - '17 Nissan Leaf SL

Outback - '16 Subaru Outback

Vaquero - '20 Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Vaquero ABS
Thanks: 144
Thanked 84 Times in 61 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
What is the ROI on $2,500 for 7 miles a day? How does that tiny amount of charge balance with your truck being warmer because you parked it in the sun? How often do you take road trips with four adults and luggage? How often do you drive and need AWD?

Rich people problems...
I am richer than I have been, so maybe? But am I a millionaire? No, I go to work everyday and not only do I depend on my income, but so does several others I help.

The math is kind of easy to work out: Tesla claims 15 miles, but that is probably optimal conditions, and those do not exist, so I will keep my guestimate of 7 miles a day. US average is about 205 days of sun per year. And most solar panels have a life around 25 years, but because it is moving around and on a car, I will give that it won't last as long, so call it 15 years. That is about 21,525 miles (7 * 205 * 15) for $2,500 dollars... so call it $0.116 a mile.

If the option is cheaper than my guess of $2,500 (I picked the largest number I thought is the most they would charge for it), then that looks better. If it lasts longer than 15 years, it gets better. If I occasionally get 10 miles instead of 7, it gets better.

If they charge more than $2,500, I will not get it.

And, there are features that I have wanted and not had and wish I had, like AWD and towing. I prefer to have them when I want and understand I am paying for them and not using them most of the time. Any passenger vehicle is almost always under utilized, even buses are not always filled, etc.

Even my motorcycle, I ride alone so much that it easily rounds to 100%.

Still does not mean I do not want it and am willing to pay for it.

Our Leaf is four doors and is lucky to have two people in it, let alone four.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2019, 06:20 PM   #148 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 20,895
Thanks: 5,851
Thanked 6,820 Times in 5,516 Posts
Quote:
Are you asking me?
It was a rhetorical ploy to appear as part of the conversation. Agreed there is no folding rear seat for a 7th or 8th passenger.
Quote:
No one is delivering an electric AWD station wagon.
ID+buzz
The ID Space Vizzion to me is an SUV, not a wagon. The ID.3 ID.Buzz and ID.Buggy all fit traditional VW body styles more closely. Buzz=Bus, geddit?
__________________
.
hallucination: uncontrolled perception
perception: controlled hallucination
Anil Seth

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2019, 07:30 PM   #149 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,602

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.58 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,308
Thanked 3,635 Times in 2,721 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldjessee00 View Post
Yet people buy new vehicles all the time... and if they didn't, no used vehicles would exist. As I stated, there are many things that go in to the decision to buy a new vehicle, if you never buy new, that is your decision for your reasons, but if you do not see that someone else could make a different decision, then no reason to discuss that further.

As for the solar panel over the bed, as it will be mostly in my case (the bed will be empty enough to keep the cover over it most of the time), if it could add even 7 miles a day, that is half my commute. Worth it to me.

My house roof is shaded by trees on both the east and the west, and in winter, to the south (due to the low angle of the sun) for part of the day (in the winter, most of the day), making the analysis of adding solar panels to my roof always come out not cost effective.

The solar panel on the truck when I drive to work I could park it so it would get direct sunlight the entire time I was at work.

Tesla has stated that as their autonomous software starts to roll out more features, they will charge more for it. And given the automotive industry to charge huge amounts for the smallest options ($2,500 for a improved radio, which is kind of a waste for someone like me who used to work on helicopters and doesn't hear well enough to make that additional money worth it), I am not sure if the autonomous features will follow general software pricing. Also that they expect people to use this software option to generate income, I think there is a good chance they will keep the price as high as they can.

I can understand why people do not want to buy full self driving.

As I age and have seen medical issues and/or medicine make driving dangerous, I can foresee a time within this vehicles lifespan that I might be in a condition where having self driving might be handy. Even if it never fully drives from point A to point B, the help it could provide making it safer for all driving and/or cover some of the highway driving would be worth it to me.
I'm not looking for you to justify what you want, as no explanation is necessary, nor do I have any negative opinion of those wealthier than me that spend money differently than I would.

Perhaps I misunderstood "This is the math that has me ready to approach the family comptroller (my wife) with putting $100 down" as a financial justification, because there is none. Now I'm interpreting that to mean your estimate of what it would cost for the various options you're contemplating, which is perfectly reasonable.

I still maintain there's next to no reason to get a solar cover for the Tesla unless you live in the wilderness and there's a good chance that it could save you from certain death if you happened to run out of juice and were outside of cell range. $2,500 can purchas 25,000 kWh of electricity at my rates, which in the CyberTruck I estimate will get you 50,000 miles. If the extra cost is financed, there's the compounded interest on the loan that makes it more expensive, and at the very least there's the compounded interest of the cost that you're missing out on. So the extra $2,500 ends up costing you $5,000 in opportunity cost. Finally, it's better for battery health to not be fully charged, so you're better off letting the truck sit slightly discharged while at work. As I say, if it makes you happy, get it. I'm just saying there would be no way for me to derive pleasure\value from it given all the negatives. 1 more thing to break or get vandalized, and a little more weight. Plus if you're having to run things by the comptroller, take that off the list once the negotiations start as your "compromise".

If it were my property, I'd want sunlight to reach my house, so I'd consider cutting back some trees, though I have no idea what the situation looks like at your place. Solar is pointless where I live anyhow, so it's a no-go for me regardless.

Tesla has a history of reducing prices after capturing early adopters, as any business does. It's highly probable that full self driving will become less expensive over time as the cost of the technology comes down, and they attempt to capture larger segments of the market. That, and they aren't the only (or even best) autonomous player in the market right now. Their prices will have to compete with the others.

I'm very grateful that there are people that purchase new vehicles and subsidize new technologies so frugal people like me can reap the trickle down benefits at a delayed date.

Perhaps when I'm older I'll value the money less and the cutting edge stuff more.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
Xist (12-04-2019)
Old 12-04-2019, 09:12 PM   #150 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
oldtamiyaphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,510

UFI - '12 Fiat 500 Twinair
Team Turbocharged!
90 day: 40.3 mpg (US)

Jeep - '05 Jeep Wrangler Renegade
90 day: 18.09 mpg (US)

R32 - '89 Nissan Skyline

STiG - '16 Renault Trafic 140dCi Energy
90 day: 30.12 mpg (US)

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 50.25 mpg (US)

Premodded - '49 Ford Freighter
90 day: 13.48 mpg (US)

F-117 - '10 Proton Arena GLSi
Pickups
Mitsubishi
90 day: 37.82 mpg (US)

Ralica - '85 Toyota Celica ST
90 day: 25.23 mpg (US)

Sx4 - '07 Suzuki Sx4
90 day: 32.21 mpg (US)

F-117 (2) - '03 Citroen Xsara VTS
90 day: 30.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 325
Thanked 445 Times in 314 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
A f150 is the same physical size as a F250. A Ram 1500 is the same size as a 2500, and the Tesla is similar too. What the Tesla must have to claim a 3500 pound payload is a 10,000 pound GVWR at LEAST which means it's a 2500 or 3500 series pickup nit a 1500. It also will weigh more than my 2500 Suburban does as a model X is only 200 pounds lighter.
Earlier in the year Tesla bought out Maxwell and their solid state battery technology, they said it would be market ready in 2020/21. That happens to be when the Cybertruck comes out. Tesla's already said it will weigh the same as a F150, and the only way they'll do that is with solid state batteries.

Game over. Solid state batteries are the last nail in the ICE coffin.

__________________






  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to oldtamiyaphile For This Useful Post:
RedDevil (12-05-2019), Xist (12-04-2019)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com