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Old 12-14-2019, 04:39 PM   #241 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
Dave Smith over here had a new 2019 Power Wagon for $51,000. The Power Wagon is actually a very expensive dedicated off road package with a $2000 warn winch even included. You can get a perfectly nice 4X4 crew cab 2500 Ram in the high $30's, a 1500 the same in the $20's.
I just wanted it understood,that folks today are already willing to drop more than what the top-line Cybertruck is priced at,for lower performance.

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Old 12-14-2019, 06:20 PM   #242 (permalink)
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But paid fast charging almost anywhere isn't such a bad deal.
Not really. The US average Tesla Supercharger price is $0.28 per kWh. For a Model 3 Long range that would be about $0.075 cents per mile assuming 10% charging loss. That is equal to about 34 mpg at current gasoline prices. (The national average for unleaded in $2.56 per gallon)

Using public chargers kills a huge cost benefit of EVs.
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:32 PM   #243 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile View Post
Truck owners only pretend to care about payload. Less than 10% of owners use them for work. Maybe 10% of those regularly need full payload.

How well it fits into your ICE categories really is completely missing the point of the CT.
Using a vehicles performance and caring about the rated specs are two VERY different things. Trucks guys absolutely care about payload and towing specs even if they will never tow or haul. It is all about bragging rights not actual use.

No different than performance motorcycles. Sport bikes make 200 - 230 hp today. They also have advanced traction control with 6-axis sensors to keep the rider from killing themselves. It doesn't matter that the extra power can't be put to the ground without looping the bike or that a 220 hp motorcycle is only fractionally faster than a 130 hp motorcycle from 20 years ago. Manufacturers add more power every generation because that is the key metric for buyers.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:54 PM   #244 (permalink)
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No it won't, and there are F150s available with 3270 pounds of payload. I'll bet the GVWR on the Cybertruck is at least 9000 pounds, I actually believe thy will just go straight to 10,000 pounds and not mess around. I bet any 4wd outweighs my 2001 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban that has Cybertruck type payload numbers.

I'm all for making the Cybertruck but just don't get all the fairyland beliefs surrounding it.
What current truck owners don't understand is efficiency

Going from a floppy ladder frame to a unibody saves 1/2 ton of weight while being much, much stronger. American pickup payloads are laughed at in the rest of the world. An exoskeleton/ space frame is stronger still. When you have a fundamentally strong design, you can use lighter materials.

A truss bridge like this has a weight capacity of ~200tons:



Remove all the structure, leaving just the deck in place, and that's your typical pick up. ~10 tons capacity. Restoring the bridges capacity to 200 tons using just the deck girders would make the bridge extremely heavy.
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Old 12-14-2019, 10:03 PM   #245 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Using a vehicles performance and caring about the rated specs are two VERY different things. Trucks guys absolutely care about payload and towing specs even if they will never tow or haul. It is all about bragging rights not actual use.

No different than performance motorcycles. Sport bikes make 200 - 230 hp today. They also have advanced traction control with 6-axis sensors to keep the rider from killing themselves. It doesn't matter that the extra power can't be put to the ground without looping the bike or that a 220 hp motorcycle is only fractionally faster than a 130 hp motorcycle from 20 years ago. Manufacturers add more power every generation because that is the key metric for buyers.
You've kind on made my point. 2.9 to 60 carries bragging rights no other truck will come close to. And unlike payload, it's something you can use almost everyday.

99% of trucks are bought for the look at me factor. The CT has so much more of that than anything else you can buy.
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:40 PM   #246 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Using public chargers kills a huge cost benefit of EVs.
Unless you're paying 28˘ at home, then it's a wash. Except for the range extension.
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:35 PM   #247 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Unless you're paying 28˘ at home, then it's a wash. Except for the range extension.
Right, that's the point I make on another forum.

The idea is to not use public charging, and for those gluttons for punishment that insist on doing long road-trips in an EV, who cares if it costs even $0.50/kWh when you only do it a couple times a year.

Charging infrastructure is a money loser at the moment, and so far I don't see how to change that. Maybe they need to increase the cost, but then people complain that it approaches the cost per mile for gasoline.
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Old 12-15-2019, 04:27 PM   #248 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile View Post
What current truck owners don't understand is efficiency

Going from a floppy ladder frame to a unibody saves 1/2 ton of weight while being much, much stronger. American pickup payloads are laughed at in the rest of the world. An exoskeleton/ space frame is stronger still. When you have a fundamentally strong design, you can use lighter materials.

A truss bridge like this has a weight capacity of ~200tons:



Remove all the structure, leaving just the deck in place, and that's your typical pick up. ~10 tons capacity. Restoring the bridges capacity to 200 tons using just the deck girders would make the bridge extremely heavy.
Saves 1000 pounds really? And thick steel panels and bullet proof glass probably saves more compared to the aluminum modern F150. This is the fairy stuff I'm talking about, along with suddenly a 200% improvement in battery weight. There is no way the Cybertruck is going to weight less than a long Range Model X and it's lightweight unibody aluminum construction while it's going to need twice the battery to get 500 miles of range. So you have a Model X with twice the battery, steel instead of aluminum, big LT mud tires instead of highway radials, bullet proof glass, worse Cd, more frontal aera, things like sliding ramps strong enough to hold an atv and rider, have the ability to carry 3500 pounds, but weigh about 5200 pounds? Oh and BTW its 1/2 the price. If all that is possible they are raping people on the Model X.
It will start at 6200 pounds for the standard range 2wd and be over 7000 pounds for the 3 motor 4wd. Mark my words.
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Old 12-15-2019, 04:51 PM   #249 (permalink)
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Even if they are off the mark by say, 50%; isn't that a testimonial to the aerospace construction techniques?
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Old 12-15-2019, 05:30 PM   #250 (permalink)
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Rich Rebuilds: "It looks like a preterm Honda Ridgeline."

Lol

There's a nice video out about a Model X embarrassing an F250. It's all about instantaneous, continuous torque, I guess.

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