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Old 03-21-2020, 04:06 PM   #521 (permalink)
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aeronautical

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Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
Popular misconceptions about aerodynamics of flying things. Not to worry because I cant argue your vehicle aero.

Vehicle aero and aircraft aero are related but not exactly similar
Without a conventional vertical stabilizer I can see how the B2 would 'hunt' as far as yaw.I doubt that it would recover from spin,the same as it wouldn't recover from stall,as Glen Edwards and crew found out in the YB-49.Fly-by-wire seems to be the only thing between the flight crew and a crash.The Granville Brother's Gee-Bee could have used it.

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Old 03-21-2020, 04:41 PM   #522 (permalink)
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I've always been curious about pterodactyl tails. The principles were incorporated in the Naboo Starfighter.


http://starshipmodeler.com/starwars/prenab6.jpg

I see there are also plasma actuators as 'afterburners' and steerable nozzles on the engine nacelles.

edit:
I believe this would be called a drogue tail.
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:17 PM   #523 (permalink)
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tail

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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I've always been curious about pterodactyl tails. The principles were incorporated in the Naboo Starfighter.


http://starshipmodeler.com/starwars/prenab6.jpg

I see there are also plasma actuators as 'afterburners' and steerable nozzles on the engine nacelles.

edit:
I believe this would be called a drogue tail.
Operating outside an atmosphere,I've no idea what it's function would be,nor any other feature of the craft.You couldn't accomplish dog-fighting maneuvers aerodynamically.Enormous amounts of thrust would be required to alter direction as we've become accustomed seeing on aerodynamic structures.You'd need thrusters operating simultaneously in pitch,roll,and yaw to mimic traditional aerodynamic trajectories.Which is something George Lucas was interested in when designing Star Wars sequences.Robert Cumberford might say that the design of the star-fighter offers 'directional' aspects.When you look at it,you immediately interpret its direction of travel.
In an atmosphere,the tail would be described as a 'stinger' and typically would enclose an antenna or sensor array.
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:47 PM   #524 (permalink)
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Not a great example, just one of my favorites.

To be practical the tail would be articulated, and used in an atmosphere. I presumed the movies are 'directionally' correct but lacking in detail. I wonder if the Coanda effect happens in a vacuum.

Here's an interesting example of a drogue tail with delta wings:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pteros...and_extinction
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:52 PM   #525 (permalink)
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Coanda in space

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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Not a great example, just one of my favorites.

To be practical the tail would be articulated, and used in an atmosphere. I presumed the movies are 'directionally' correct but lacking in detail. I wonder if the Coanda effect happens in a vacuum.

Here's an interesting example of a drogue tail with delta wings:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pteros...and_extinction
Without some sort of atmosphere,nothing would happen.
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Old 03-21-2020, 06:49 PM   #526 (permalink)
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I looked into it, you're right.

Sorry for going off topic but right now I'm listening to Jonathan Ward on Joe Rogan's show
Quote:
... so I was like all
right let's do a revisionist history
approach to car design so what if
electric cars had remained predominant
in the late 1800s Early 1900s what if we
had taken inspiration from aircraft
design a couple decades prior to when
the industry actually did and then what
if after he did the experimental plane
that age - I think it was what if Howard
Hughes [its satin] down and like he
couldn't get that last starlet to go out
with him right before he lost his mind
completely what if he Buckminster Fuller
and Gordon [burek] sat down and did a
napkin sketch after too many martinis
what would that car look like...

www.hemmings.com: ICON’s Helios concept envisions a past that never happened/
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:32 AM   #527 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
Without a conventional vertical stabilizer I can see how the B2 would 'hunt' as far as yaw.I doubt that it would recover from spin,the same as it wouldn't recover from stall,as Glen Edwards and crew found out in the YB-49.Fly-by-wire seems to be the only thing between the flight crew and a crash.The Granville Brother's Gee-Bee could have used it.
If you're high enough, Spins are non events in the B2, the split ailerons open up really wide and double as airbrakes when landing. Never thought to ask about stalls because all my experiments with flying wings showed my designs to be bobble stalls or high alpha sink.

I thought the YB 49 broke up inflight during descent.

The Gee-Bee has aileron reversal in high angle of attack conditions, ie around pylons or landing. Not good juju.

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Old 03-25-2020, 12:41 PM   #528 (permalink)
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broke up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
If you're high enough, Spins are non events in the B2, the split ailerons open up really wide and double as airbrakes when landing. Never thought to ask about stalls because all my experiments with flying wings showed my designs to be bobble stalls or high alpha sink.

I thought the YB 49 broke up inflight during descent.

The Gee-Bee has aileron reversal in high angle of attack conditions, ie around pylons or landing. Not good juju.
The program I saw didn't go into the details of the event, only that it occurred during stall testing, and that the plane never recovered. Evidently, all the Northrup flying wings suffered the same shortcoming, and since they were considered aerodynamically unstable, it took microprocessor technology to put the genie back in the bottle. No matter the pilot did with the yoke, the fly-by-wire system would prevent angle of attack from ever approaching burble point and impending stall.
'Not good juju',no kidding!
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:44 PM   #529 (permalink)
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Helios

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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I looked into it, you're right.

Sorry for going off topic but right now I'm listening to Jonathan Ward on Joe Rogan's show


www.hemmings.com: ICONís Helios concept envisions a past that never happened/
What a beauty! CORD meets Bugatti! Really sweet!
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:22 PM   #530 (permalink)
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Imagine Jonathan Ward, Chris Runge and Randy Grubb collaborating on something.

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