Blistering speed of...

[euromodder]

I'd say we have both competitions, then see which of the extreme designs / design features still work when translated into real life.

[stiletto2]

Originally Posted by low&slow

Interesting discussion, but for me it points out the limited usefulness of the Shell Fuel Contest style competitons . The other posters are right that these "cars' " can be beaten by a fit bicyclist as far as achieving the speeds and going the actual total distance that these "cars " do in a competition. I wish that Shell and other major sponsors would go to a competition format like The Vetter Fuel Economy Challenge where the competition takes place on public roads at speeds that are safe and usefull and where there is a usefull cargo carrying requirement ( 4 filled paper grocery sacks in the Vetter Challenge). Competitions like the Vetter Challenge would demonstrate stimulate actual developments that would benifit real world motor vehicles rather than just be engineering exercises. my 2 cents worth

Exactly!! If the idea is to ultimately have something fuel efficient to use every day on the road in real world situations, why piss around so much with rarely achievable results with such over the top impractical vehicles? Sure, some experimentation is needed to validate ideas, but too much seems to be made of these feats when they bear little resemblance with how vehicles are normally used and what eventually comes from production models for the consumer.

Fuel efficiency is but one of the parameters for an efficient road worthy vehicle. And road worthy is a key point; if it is not usable AND practical on the road, it would seem to be a waste of time to quite a degree if you don't make it with it being a usable consumer product to begin with IMO. People don't drive their cars lying down looking between their feet through a glass bubble and likely won't ever .... so why even go there with that then? It just doesn't make a lot of sense. Fine if your aim is to merely hit ultra high peaks, but don't try to drag consumer product into the conversation because they are just too remote from one another.

My approach would be to start with a good vehicle design that meets road worthy/practicality stats and try to get better results in efficiency rather than start with rarefied, astronomical fuel efficiency numbers and expect that you will be able to build a vehicle that can get them and be practical and road worthy too. There needs to be a merging of fuel efficiency/practicality, road worthy concepts early on in design and testing. 1300 MPG is great for a single experimental example and may help with design of an economical consumer product. But going further by spending more time and money to eke out 200 more MPG on the experimental vehicle while running it in a way that would not be done normally , safely and practicably as a consumer vehicle would is likely have little impact on the consumer product in the end. (except cause it to be more expensive because of wasted R&D time and money)

Just my 2 cents

[Frank Lee]

If the idea is to ultimately have something fuel efficient to use every day on the road in real world situations, why piss around so much with rarely achievable results with such over the top impractical vehicles?

Did I not just say THAT ISN'T THE IDEA?

[Xist]

I say that we make a new contest. You get one hundred Ecomodders (there are that many of us, right? ), give everybody $10, A-B-A test their modifications, and whoever achieves the greatest percentage improvement receives $50,000--to be spent for ecomodding only!

[Grant-53]

The cost of producing a competition vehicle as well as keeping students safe are key concerns. Events like the Green Grand Prix are what ecomodders are more inclined to support. The local community college has a Geo Metro modified to get 140 mpg at 45 mph for the event at Watkins Glen. There are national and regional events for streamlined human powered vehicles through ASME.

[niky]

Originally Posted by Xist

I say that we make a new contest. You get one hundred Ecomodders (there are that many of us, right? ), give everybody $10, A-B-A test their modifications, and whoever achieves the greatest percentage improvement receives $50,000--to be spent for ecomodding only!

Tires at 10 psi before. Tires at 40 psi after. Send me my check.

[Xist]

Originally Posted by niky

Tires at 10 psi before. Tires at 40 psi after. Send me my check.

That would probably do it!

So, how do we create a partial vacuum in a tire?

[renault_megane_dci]

Originally Posted by Xist

I say that we make a new contest. You get one hundred Ecomodders (there are that many of us, right? ), give everybody $10, A-B-A test their modifications, and whoever achieves the greatest percentage improvement receives $50,000--to be spent for ecomodding only!

A : ride down the mountain
B : ride up the mountain,
A : ride down the mountain
=> my mod : ride down ...

A contest needs to be held in a unity of time / weather ...

The Vetter Challenge is a good exercise.

That being said, I'd love to see or to enter one of those "scrapyards battle" with ecomodding as the target, that would be fun !

[niky]

Originally Posted by Xist

That would probably do it!

So, how do we create a partial vacuum in a tire?

Lighter than vacuum gas. Duh.

[RedDevil]

Something that has been bugging me about those million mpg vehicles is the speed they operate at. 15 mph in a hyper light and aerodynamic vehicle with no shock absorbers requires so little power that driver input could seriously contribute to that, thwarting the competition and invalidating the result.
Let me explain that.
Engine starting.
Many vehicles use pulse and glide, and use a very short pulse of just a few second and a coast of over a minute or so. If the engines start by a starter motor and battery, fine. If they bump start, okay. But they start by a pull cable... That's physical input, and at these speeds a good jolt will hurl the paperweight cone forward. Me no like.
Suspension.
Some cars have systems that harvest damper energy to provide propulsion. If the driver lies still that's fine. But in those cars the driver can load the system by moving up and down. As the driver is alone in the car ther is no excuse for that kind of movement. (sex drive ? )
Steering.
At the day care center we used to visit my son had a favourite toy; a little trike that steers in the middle of the frame. All wheels roll free, yet it moves forward quite quickly by swinging the front part left and right. As he pushes his legs sideways the front wheel follows the motion speeding up at every swing.
There's the swing step; same effect, all free rolling wheels, yet propulsion from sideways motion and steering. Same with skateboards and swingboards.
Power steering, for sure.
Surely they know and use that?

So I refuse to take those mile on a single drop claims serious anymore. Drive at a decent pace, replace the driver with sandbags and a standardized R/C unit, then I might regain some interest.