Body integrated radiator method, requires no grill or openings...

[dcb]

I like your thinking blackjackel, it is an excellent idea with potential. It may not be the only cooling system but if you can block off your front radiator completely AT highway speeds then that would be a noticeable gain in aerodynamics. The safety bit can always be addressed so don't get bogged down in it as folks are liken to do, this is an innovative idea that would benefit from some brainstorming.

[Big Dave]

Back in the 1930s, Howard Hughes tried to make a condensing steam car. Needless to say, a 80 HP recip steam engine needs a lot of condensor area, so they tried brazing cooling tube to the backside of all the body panels. It sorta worked - at least as well as a Rankine cycle engine will work.

Somebody bumbled a Model A Ford into it and the driver was scalded by the exhaust steam from the broken tubes.

It was also incredibly expensive, but then it was an engineering prototype and such models are always expensive.

[dcb]

I wonder how many people have been injured or died driving a car?

[Xringer]

What concerns me is the contact points between the engine and the heat dissipating hood & fenders.

Since the engine needs to move around a bit on it's mounts,
the heat pipes would have to be flexible and durable. Does such a thing exist?
I think you might have to invent some new technology..

Are the motors in an EV shock mounted? (Like an ICE?).?
Seems like a flexible heat pipe would be useful in an EV..

----------
The fan on my video card was so loud, it was driving me crazy.
I got this big Arctic Cooling heat sink with a couple of heat pipes,
dumped the fan and now it's cool and quite too.
Arctic Cooling
I think these heat pipes are copper pipes filled with a liquid.
So, maybe the same thing could be done with rubber pipes?
(Like on an ICE radiator).

[blackjackel]

I've read all of the constructive criticism and I must admit, safety never really crossed my mind, DOH!!!

Originally Posted by Tango Charlie

Safety, schmafety. I like the idea. Let's try it!


How about a bellypan/radiator?
Hmmm...

But this is by far the BEST elaboration on my Idea that I have ever seen... The built in radiator dosen't have to be on TOP of the car, but can cover the entire underside of the car, including wheelwells (where a lot of air turbulance occurs)...

That way there is no problem of safety when it comes to heat, and you can stick as many fins down there as you want and that shouldn't hurt anyone either, and you can have a HUGE surface area with which to work with all of which would be exposed to constant shade and air movement.

[Sayyad]

How about running the hot coolant through the inside of a double-walled aluminum belly pan, such that the belly pan acts as both an airflow improving and cooling device at once. The pan could even have fins hanging down an inch or so, keeping the airflow going straight front-to-back as well as providing further cooling to the fluid inside. Just keep the coolant away from the even hotter exhaust pipe, and watch out for speed bumps and rocks.
Didn't Toyota or Honda integrate a little steam turbine with a gas engine recently?
What is a radiator for? It removes excess heat. This heat comes from the fuel you payed for. I would say that instead of having a radiator at all we should be doing something about using all that heat for something. What I'd like to see is a diesel-stirling-electric hybrid. Imagine (or calculate) how far our cars would go if they actually used most of the energy from the fuel they burn.

[cfg83]

blackjackel -

I am imagining a hood-based solution. The analogy is the CPU cooling fan that has radiator fins. Imagine that the top of the engine is the "CPU" and the underside of the hood has tons of fins attached to it that also come in contact with the engine.

The hood could have a grid of holes to help with venting. At highway speeds, the holes would look "solid" to the airstream (right?!?!?!).

There could still be a fan with an operable grill at those pesky stop lights.

Focusing the heat/venting on the hood could isolate the safety risks.

Problem: Maybe you would see "mirage heat" radiating from the hood while you drive.

Problem: Heat blasting into the cabin when you roll down the windows.

Both problems sounds like another reason for a rear engine classic VW bug configuration.

CarloSW2

[blackjackel]

Originally Posted by cfg83

blackjackel -

I am imagining a hood-based solution. The analogy is the CPU cooling fan that has radiator fins. Imagine that the top of the engine is the "CPU" and the underside of the hood has tons of fins attached to it that also come in contact with the engine.

The hood could have a grid of holes to help with venting. At highway speeds, the holes would look "solid" to the airstream (right?!?!?!).

There could still be a fan with an operable grill at those pesky stop lights.

Focusing the heat/venting on the hood could isolate the safety risks.

Problem: Maybe you would see "mirage heat" radiating from the hood while you drive.

Problem: Heat blasting into the cabin when you roll down the windows.

Both problems sounds like another reason for a rear engine classic VW bug configuration.

CarloSW2

The idea of a CPU and heatsink was the EXACT idea that was in my head when thinking of this solution... You could probably solve problem two by centering the blades of the heat sink on the windshield so the hot air goes up and over and not to the sides...

Originally Posted by Sayyad

How about running the hot coolant through the inside of a double-walled aluminum belly pan, such that the belly pan acts as both an airflow improving and cooling device at once. The pan could even have fins hanging down an inch or so, keeping the airflow going straight front-to-back as well as providing further cooling to the fluid inside. Just keep the coolant away from the even hotter exhaust pipe, and watch out for speed bumps and rocks.
Didn't Toyota or Honda integrate a little steam turbine with a gas engine recently?
What is a radiator for? It removes excess heat. This heat comes from the fuel you payed for. I would say that instead of having a radiator at all we should be doing something about using all that heat for something. What I'd like to see is a diesel-stirling-electric hybrid. Imagine (or calculate) how far our cars would go if they actually used most of the energy from the fuel they burn.

You could sandwich an ass load of TEC or thermoelectric plates in between the heatsink and the engine, that would generate electricity, possibly a LOT of electricity, you could probably power the whole car's electrical system from this TEC setup taking the load off of the alternator alltogether...

[justpassntime]

I like Tango Charlie and Sayyad's thought on this.

I think though if you used enough aluminum tubing to help support an aluminum belly pan tray of sorts. The aluminum itself would be enough for the heat sink without the need for fins. It could even be ran through power steering or tranny coolers if needed. Doing it this way you could probably do away with the radiator entirely.

You may need a small overflow tank to hold additional coolant so your cooling system still retains the same amount of fluid.

Another thought is aircraft hydraulic system filters. Some were large enough to hold at least a quart of fluid and had heat sink fins built in.

If you wanted to retain a/c though you would still need the opening.

[tasdrouille]

I like the heat pipes concept to move heat away. But that might be hard to implement.

I really like the belly pan idea. That's what popped first into my mind when I read the first post. If you redesign the rad and sandwich it in between 2 belly pans, making it a channel, I'm pretty sure you could get better airflow in the rad than with front mounted designs, and get better airflow overall from the belly pan itself.