BORPower additive?

[Logic]

Originally Posted by aerohead

* I suspect that this is the very source of the intellectual 'cul de sac' where you're presently trapped, with respect to 'tribology.'
* I think that you're associating dry lubrication sliding friction conceptualizations in connection with automobile lubrication.
* They're two completely different animals.
* Not germane to one another.
* Not analogous.
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I've already tried to point this out, but so far, there's no evidence that you 'got the memo.'

I got your opinion.
Which was counter to my (and many others') findings.

My undeniable lack of education in Tribology is why I did the research I did before trying this.

Here are the peer reviewed published papers by the person who 1st discovered this:
https://scholar.google.com/citations...8AIAAAAJ&hl=en

That's 549 PEER Reviewed published papers.
As is known to everyone reading this; you are very unlikely to click the link and notice the number of other research papers by other researchers in the field that cited his papers.

I assume I don't have to explain the peer review process required before a paper is published to you.
Oh wait... as you refuse to do any research yourself; perhaps I do!?

This might amuse others enjoying their popcorn here:
Argonne’s Ali Erdemir elected to National Academy of Engineering for pivotal discoveries in tribology
https://www.anl.gov/article/argonnes...s-in-tribology

Distinguished Fellow Ali Erdemir from the U.S. Department of Energy’s (DOE) Argonne National Laboratory has been elected a member of the National Academy of Engineering (NAE), one of the highest professional distinctions accorded to engineers.

The NAE recognizes Erdemir for his distinguished contributions to the science and technology of friction, wear and lubrication. Erdemir, a program lead in Argonne’s Applied Materials Division, develops new materials, coatings and lubricants with his research team to reduce friction and wear, maximizing efficiency and durability in moving mechanical systems. The discoveries and innovations stemming from his work have earned him six R&D 100 Awards and 23 U.S. patents.

I highlighted a word or 2 about "My Scientist"

[Logic]

Originally Posted by aerohead

In Dr. Ari Erdemir's PATENT discourse, it is 'he' that states ( paraphrasing ) ' Use only lubricants which are chemically unreactive with boric acid.'
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If your a professional chemist and know before hand if boric acid in motor oil is compatible with every chemical and metal I listed, only 'then' have we satisfied Dr. Erdemir's self-imposed constraint.
I'm just the messenger.
I read every word he published, and I read it for comprehension.
$ 93-million are hanging in the balance!

Hmm ye... I'm no chemist and couldn't tell you if boric acid reacts with any of the additives already in engine oil.
But I can tell you I TRIED IT ANYWAY and IT WORKED extremely well in all cases.

(The VW complications that required dropping the sump excepted. But there it worked too once the the sludge was discarded and the sieve replaced with a coarser one)

The reason I didnt worry too much about chemical reactions was that the boric acid was dissolved in water.
And water hardly dissolves in oil, forming an emulsion instead.
An emulsion that IMHO would boil and/or evaporate away in short order, leaving a modified bearing surface/s.
Having actually tested it in over a 2 dozen engines; I found I was correct.
Have you tested it?

[Logic]

Originally Posted by aerohead

* Here's the deal.
* Around 6,700 members and guests have visited this thread.
* According to testimonial advertising for automotive extended warranty insurance policies, car owners are seeing engine replacement costs of up to $ 14,000 ( US Dollars ).
* If 6,700 members or guests were to pour a mixture of boric acid-water solution into their engine's crankcase and lose the engine, we're looking at a potential damages of up to $ 93-million, 800- thousand dollars.
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I am a mechanical engineer, and an automotive engineer since 1974, and the only reason I went to college in the first place was to understand about automobiles.
At 50-years now I remain a student.
It's because of 'what I know' that I'm throwing caution flags on the field.
Don't take it personal.
I think you're really trying help, but it's 'what you don't know' yet, that's so dangerous.
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If you 'were' in school, and this was 'Auto Tribology 101 ', it would be a 20-week course, 100-hours in a classroom setting, plus 20-hours in a lab.
You'd be a grad student, having already spent $100,000 on bachelor's degree.

If, like me, these members were to test this in an old smokey engine they would were about to redo anyway; what would be lost if it didn't work?

I like anyone, was cautious. Till I saw the results for myself.

You may be sure that someone here, in the same boat, will try this... to see if it might save them an engine rebuild.
It will.
But I doubt they will want to spend the time and energy fighting of the attack you will launch on them if they mention it here!
So I very much doubt either of us will ever know about it.
More's the pity as you 'remain a student'!

For all we know; some of those members already use MotorSilk or a similar Boric Acid based oil additive.

[freebeard]

Having actually tested it in over a 2 dozen engines; I found I was correct.

Thanks for that. It's a shame popcorn gets stuck in between my teeth.

duckduckgo.com/?q=MotorSilk&ia=web

Was this mentioned upthread?

I have an engine that needs to be torn down due to low compression on one cylinder, and a 0-miles engine assembly on the bench. I assume the first one would warrant treatment after the repair. Would the bench motor need to be broken in before it is eligible?

[Logic]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Thanks for that. It's a shame popcorn gets stuck in between my teeth.

duckduckgo.com/?q=MotorSilk&ia=web

Was this mentioned upthread?

I have an engine that needs to be torn down due to low compression on one cylinder, and a 0-miles engine assembly on the bench. I assume the first one would warrant treatment after the repair. Would the bench motor need to be broken in before it is eligible?

I would say the 1st one, as is, is an extremely good candidate freebeard:

• The fact that it needs a rebuild anyway means way less anxiety in trying this.
• Then there's the chance to do a compression test and see the before and after numbers for both the tired piston and the 3 that are still good.
• You get to judge and hopefully film the before after amount of smoke coming out the exhaust.
• One might even do a before after gas analysis and (half throttle?) dyno run, but that does cost. (Is there any kind of funding thing going here where one might donate to such? There should be...)
• The old colour of the oil on the dipstick 'test' is another telling and cheap test. There is certainly a dramatic increase in the # of km for which the oil remains new looking, to the point where I delayed oil changes from 10k km to 15 or 20k km IIRC. It just didn't seem worth the trouble with the oil still looking so new and I wanted to see...
• Then there's always fuel consumption #s which are of great interest here.

IMHO I WOULD NOT do this to a new or newly rebuilt engine:
The Engine should be thoroughly run in 1st IMHO.

IIRC most engines are properly loosened up and producing their most power/economy after around 30 000 km? (Need to check that)
I would consider that 'maximum power/economy after x? # of km' the bare minimum and might even add another 5k to 10k km to the number.

Reason being: IMHO the engine 'STOPS' running in after treatment and one would want your engine at its most optial power/efficiency level 1st

[aerohead]

That wouldn't inform us with any useful, actionable information.
Tribologists involved only in 'real world automotive ' lubrication can get all they need to know with profilometers, ferrography, spectrometers, boroscopes, engine test cell dynamometers, and proving grounds on-road testing, as per stringent methodology protocols.

[aerohead]

The so-called 'thickness layer' is an artifact of:
* Bearing clearance
* Unit load between rubbing surfaces
* Surface finish
* Lubrication system
* Surface speed
* Operational temperature
* In-service age of the lubricant
* Local operational environmental factors

[aerohead]

In the case of 'finetuning', in Mumbai, India:
1) For April, May, June, July, August, and September, he/she wouldn't be able to drive his/her car at all, without exceeding Dr. Erdemir's test temperatures.
2) For October, November, December, January, February, and March, he/she
would be able to operate the car for a few minutes, until the engine temperature reached 25-C.
3) Engine 'speed' would be limited to 60-rpm, at 31- mph ( 48-km/h ) the average local speed limit, as per Dr. Erdimer's metrics.
4) The car 'WOULD' experience a 20% increase in mpg.
5) However, the car would ALSO get 20% better mpg, with zero modifications to the engine oil.
6) 'Fully-warmed,' the car would see a 0.41% improvement in fuel economy, with a 1,000% reduction in 'friction.'
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7) If he/she were driving a Chevrolet TRAX, and after driving 36-km, at a constant 88-km/h, slowing back down to a constant 48-km/h, they would see a fuel economy improvement, from, 86.976-mpg, to 87.333-mpg.

[aerohead]

If the OEM design 'surface-roughness' of an engine's components are arbitrarily 'smoothed', you run the risk of losing the 'porosity' of the surface, and along with it, it's capability of maintaining an oil film.
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Lake Speed Jr., Tribologist for Joe Gibbs ( NASCAR ) Racing, and Lubrisol, was explaining this at, 'GEAR TALK' , Episode ##014.
Southwest Research Institute collaborated with Lake, on the 'synergy' of variable coatings, for optimized-ensemble, oil/ surface finish treatments, which ultimately allowed winning race seasons.
' If you can't measure it you can't improve it,' is Lake's mantra.
It made the difference between an engines 'lifespan' of 1-hour, to over 200-hours.
THEY HAD LOST ENGINES BECAUSE THEIR SURFACES WERE 'TOO SMOOTH'!

[aerohead]

Boron-nitrogen ( TEXACO, API, ASTM, SAE ) has been used as an 'Anti-wear, extreme pressure ( EP ), and Oiliness Film Strength Agent, in commercial motor oils for 51-years. It can operate at 875-C , compared with Dr. Erdemir's, 25-C, 50% by weight boric acid/mineral oil 'PATENT' formulation.
Is 'Boric acid' not associated with anti-wear, extreme pressure, oiliness, and oil film strength?