Breaking news! Chevy volt technically driven by gas engine!

[UFO]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

They have two kinds of motors (aka power sources), that are used together to move the vehicle.

If two sources of energy are required to be a hybrid -- then there are NO hybrids sold in the USA; zero, none. The energy in the batteries of Prius' and Honda hybrids comes from the gasoline; so just one energy source.

Only plug-in conversions meet that criteria...

Take away the battery in the Volt (or don't charge it) and it turns into a conventional car? I think it would still be called a serial/series hybrid.

There are (obviously) a lot of variations in the bits and parts and combinations and different types of hybrids. Who's to say what parts are required to "be" a hybrid?

No mention of batteries, or plugging in...

It seems very simple to me. I'm still not sure if you agree on the definition of hybrid. Assuming you agree a hybrid vehicle is one that can use 2 power sources to move, it should be clear how a hybrid car is, and a locomotive is not.

The Prius is a good example. Obviously it can be powered from gasoline alone, and with a plug-in option it can drive from a battery charged from a different power source. It should be equally as obvious you cannot do that with a locomotive, at least one that can't reach to overhead electric lines.

Not everyone agrees on the definition. However, none of the others make sense to me.

[cfg83]

Neil -

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

...

Take away the battery in the Volt (or don't charge it) and it turns into a conventional car? I think it would still be called a serial/series hybrid.

There are (obviously) a lot of variations in the bits and parts and combinations and different types of hybrids. Who's to say what parts are required to "be" a hybrid?

...

No mention of batteries, or plugging in...

Ay, there's the rub. While I prefer the idea of concise definitions of what it means to be a type of hybrid car, I don't think anyone implements the classic definitions in the real world.

Conceptually I'm a series-hybrid snob because I *like* the idea of being able to swap out the "generator component" and leave the rest of the drivetrain alone. That way when the oscillation overthruster finally makes it to market, I can just "swap it in" and keep going along my merry way.

CarloSW2

[NeilBlanchard]

From the Wikipedia entry on Hybrid Vehicles:

A hybrid vehicle is a vehicle that uses two or more distinct power sources to move the vehicle.[1] The term most commonly refers to hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs), which combine an internal combustion engine and one or more electric motors.

Power sources for hybrid vehicles include:

* On-board or out-board rechargeable energy storage system (RESS)
* Petrol or Diesel fuel
* Hydrogen
* Compressed air
* Liquid nitrogen
* Human powered e.g. pedaling or rowing
* Wind
* Electricity
* Compressed or liquefied natural gas
* Solar
* Waste heat from internal combustion engine.
* Coal, wood or other solid combustibles
* Electromagnetic fields, Radio waves

A diesel electric locomotive uses two of these energy sources: diesel and electricity. It has two power sources: diesel engine and electric motor. It uses them together to drive the train -- without either one, it would not work.

It combines two power sources i.e. it hybridizes two things for one purpose i.e. it is a hybrid.

[dcb]

that is like calling a bicycle chain an energy source.

Without one it will not work means they are not distinct sources of power.

A car with an automatic has a hydraulic coupling too, that don't make it a hybrid.

[Frank Lee]

Lotsa Master Debating going on...

[bennelson]

Originally Posted by dcb

that is like calling a bicycle chain an energy source.

Ah, like HYDROGEN.

[dcb]

if you take the battery out of a hybrid, you no longer have a hybrid. It can only run off of the stored gasoline power, not the stored electric power. It's that simple.


FYI, I consider this is a hybrid, it is designed to be propelled by foot and/or electricity:

[user removed]

I think two or more DISTINCT power sources is fairly self-explanatory.

A diesel electric train uses a diesel engine to generate electricity, which drives the wheels through electric motors. Primarily because most mechanical transmissions will not hold up to the stresses.

Not a hybrid.

If you recovered the braking energy in some form of storage and used it for re-acceleration, then it would be a hybrid.

It was interesting to read that they tried diesel hydraulic trains, and they were more efficient that the diesel electrics, but had reliability problems.

regards
Mech

[autoteach]

Originally Posted by dcb

that is like calling a bicycle chain an energy source.

Without one it will not work means they are not distinct sources of power.

A car with an automatic has a hydraulic coupling too, that don't make it a hybrid.

By the definition that people are arguing with, a car with an automatic transmission is using two sources to provide locomotion, as the trans could go into lock up or it uses a fluid viscous coupling that the engine inserts energy into, where the energy is stored in a fluid through motion and then transferred to the transmission. Just because the diesel engine develops electricity, doesnt make it a hybrid. the electricity is just the "driveshaft". One might argue that a nuclear plant is a hybrid power plant, as they develop steam from the fusion and use that to spin a turbine to produce the electricity. Maybe people would feel better about nuclear if we called it a hybrid.

[NeilBlanchard]

Power source |= energy source.

By that definition, the Prius is not a hybrid.
The Insight is not a hybrid.

They only have one energy source.

But they do have two power sources. Like a diesel electric locomotive does.