Building a 100mpg consumer vehicle

[pete c]

Ken, thanks for the link.Ii did find it and your excellent site.

At first, i was thinking that the suspension fairing was a bit clumsy looking, but, as i watched the video, i decided that it is a beautiful car.

I kind of agree with Frank about direct ICE drive, but, understand your reasoning.

Perhaps there is a way to have both a series and parallel hybrid.

My idea is mount the ICE in the rear so it can have the generator hanging off one side and a clutch out the other side to a direct chain drive to the rear wheel.

Such a system could run just as you have designed and engage the clutch for constant highway cruising. It should add little complexity, weight or cost. I think it would give you a considerable gain in highway cruising mileage.

[user removed]

drmiller:
You posted a pleasant positive response on my thread about my hydraulic in wheel drive. Not sure what is going on with you but I certainly admire your dedication and progress on your quest. Not many people can make their ideas become reality, but that should not be a reason to go after them. Ken Fry seems to be driving his vehicle in the video, if you didn't look at the link. I wish you would, it's a very nice design as well as an excellent execution.

My idea goes back 40 years when I was a young man of 20. I read about an Opel getting 124 MPG. Basically a stock car with radial tires and a block under the gas pedal to limit travel and the vacuum operated secondary of the carb disconnected. They pulsed the car to 45 MPH and shut the engine off and glided down to 15 MPH. The contest required them to average 25 MPH.

So, 41 years ago I knew you could get 124 MPG at 25 MPH average. It only took me another 30 years to figure out a way to potentially obtain the same economy without the speed variation. It requires absolutely the most efficient drive and storage systems available. Only in the last couple of years has my financial situation become secure to the point where I could actually build a vehicle to incorporate my design.

I have found the people on this forum to run the complete range of applauding my efforts to serious concerns about the design specifics. Sometimes it seems like they are trying to destroy my dream, sometimes they seem to be genuinely interested. Been around her for a few years which adds some credibility.

Maybe by the end of my 62nd year on the planet I will finally get my design built. I haven't tried to be critical of your efforts, because I understand the difficulties involved, and my project incorporates something that has never been built before, which complicates things exponentially.

I don't possess a lot of formal education, but learned to read voraciously at age 8. I learned grammar when there were no computers to correct mistakes. I learned to love efficiency in my teens studying the area of human powered flight, of which one example is in the Smithsonian today.

I have found through my life that the most important ingredient in inevitable success is determination. You demonstrate that same determination and you should not let comments bother you so much. I wish you success as well as wishing everyone who has a dream an equal success in achieving their own dreams.

It cost me nothing for you or them to succeed and maybe one day one of our successes will actually contribute to a real change that makes life better for us all.

The only defeat that makes me victorious is the defeat of my enemy, and I have no enemies, so I only need to see the victory of my dream becoming a reality.

regards
Mech

[pete c]

i just noticed something. I have headlined three pages in a row in this very entertaining thread!!!!!!

wooo hooo!!!!!

amazing what you can do with a sack full of drivel.

[pete c]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

drmiller:
You posted a pleasant positive response on my thread about my hydraulic in wheel drive. Not sure what is going on with you but I certainly admire your dedication and progress on your quest. Not many people can make their ideas become reality, but that should not be a reason to go after them. Ken Fry seems to be driving his vehicle in the video, if you didn't look at the link. I wish you would, it's a very nice design as well as an excellent execution.

My idea goes back 40 years when I was a young man of 20. I read about an Opel getting 124 MPG. Basically a stock car with radial tires and a block under the gas pedal to limit travel and the vacuum operated secondary of the carb disconnected. They pulsed the car to 45 MPH and shut the engine off and glided down to 15 MPH. The contest required them to average 25 MPH.

So, 41 years ago I knew you could get 124 MPG at 25 MPH average. It only took me another 30 years to figure out a way to potentially obtain the same economy without the speed variation. It requires absolutely the most efficient drive and storage systems available. Only in the last couple of years has my financial situation become secure to the point where I could actually build a vehicle to incorporate my design.

I have found the people on this forum to run the complete range of applauding my efforts to serious concerns about the design specifics. Sometimes it seems like they are trying to destroy my dream, sometimes they seem to be genuinely interested. Been around her for a few years which adds some credibility.

Maybe by the end of my 62nd year on the planet I will finally get my design built. I haven't tried to be critical of your efforts, because I understand the difficulties involved, and my project incorporates something that has never been built before, which complicates things exponentially.

I don't possess a lot of formal education, but learned to read voraciously at age 8. I learned grammar when there were no computers to correct mistakes. I learned to love efficiency in my teens studying the area of human powered flight, of which one example is in the Smithsonian today.

I have found through my life that the most important ingredient in inevitable success is determination. You demonstrate that same determination and you should not let comments bother you so much. I wish you success as well as wishing everyone who has a dream an equal success in achieving their own dreams.

It cost me nothing for you or them to succeed and maybe one day one of our successes will actually contribute to a real change that makes life better for us all.

The only defeat that makes me victorious is the defeat of my enemy, and I have no enemies, so I only need to see the victory of my dream becoming a reality.

regards
Mech

^^^^Wisest guy on a board full of wise guys.

Outstanding post, OM.

[Ken Fry]

Originally Posted by drmiller100

You guys are right.

I think I'll take my pics down - no one seems very interested in learning how to build a car which could be powered by diesel or electric.

Doug, I understand that, as an engineer and a believer in the value of engineering, I am unwelcome in this thread that you consider "yours." That's fine. I don't like being here. I was asked by you to come here when you were looking for feedback, as outlined in your original introduction. I would not be here now if it were not for the fact that someone had a question on the Zing.

When I first had the misfortune (I won't pretend this has been pleasant) of meeting you virtually, you wrote about "tail gunners" in the Zing thread -- something I had not perceived at all. There are people who will offer suggestions, or ask provocative questions, or disagree with a design feature... and all of those are good for me, the car, the business, etc. I can't think of a single post in the Zing thread that I would consider even vaguely rude or inappropriate or undesired. I don't see the world as "out to get me".

Regarding you car, I've said things like "Great progress," "Looks good", etc. as have many others, some of whom you seem to be driving away. Other than in posts specifically responding to your misconceptions about how I design and I build things, I have offered some encouragement in every post. I am a boat builder, so I have refrained from commenting on your fiberglass work. Others like your craftsmanship. I have refrained from comment, out of politeness. I understand that this is not a finished product, and can see beyond the rough edges. I have refrained from calling you any sort of name whatsoever.

You will note that I specifically directed Pete elsewhere for additional info on the Zing, to avoid diluting this thread. To the extent possible I have honored your request to avoid commenting, after you changed to you "no engineers" policy. So your animosity towards me and others seems remarkable.

As I wrote before, you are making great progress. I wish you luck. Your strategy of using as much of an existing car as possible is a good one. Many others have written similar things, and have provided a great deal of encouragement to you, but you seem bent on attacking these people who could be friends. Many people have expressed interest in your pictures, but suit yourself... you are certainly free to remove them from your website.

And how would that help you? It seems self-destructive. You seem genuinely unhappy, but you're doing good stuff in the car project. I hope you will gain the confidence required to promote the car, and ditch the "I have a high IQ" statement from your site. Do great work and people won't give a hoot whether you have double 800's or not. Let your work speak for itself.

In academic settings, I have been introduced to students as a "real engineer," often by people who I think of as "real" engineers, with loads of letters after their names. The difference, I guess, to them, is that I actually build stuff. But I deeply value their theoretical input and their access to million dollar CFD setups, and wind tunnels, combustion labs, and connections to bright people throughout the country. These engineers, who I admire, would probably describe you as a "real engineer" too. Some of these theoretical types, with 30 page resumes, are also just regular car guys, who have built several cars and and airplane or two. They are not all the nerds you imagine.

People are not out to get you. This is not a competition. Your vehicle and mine are not in the same market, and even if they were, there is plenty of room for both (as well as the other 50 or so like them). You are probably closer to selling you first car than Aptera was even after burning through $24 million. Have a little confidence.

[Ken Fry]

Originally Posted by pete c

Ken, thanks for the link.Ii did find it and your excellent site.

At first, i was thinking that the suspension fairing was a bit clumsy looking, but, as i watched the video, i decided that it is a beautiful car.

I kind of agree with Frank about direct ICE drive, but, understand your reasoning.

Perhaps there is a way to have both a series and parallel hybrid.

My idea is mount the ICE in the rear so it can have the generator hanging off one side and a clutch out the other side to a direct chain drive to the rear wheel.

Such a system could run just as you have designed and engage the clutch for constant highway cruising. It should add little complexity, weight or cost. I think it would give you a considerable gain in highway cruising mileage.

Interesting -- same response I had to the suspension fairing. I'd modeled a quite different looking body for the next build, (even before building the POC) but after having built the POC, the shape grew on me, and I started getting a really positive response from other people. It's ironic, in a way, because it is very strongly based on function, and the other design actually had a little "style" but people who have seen both prefer the style of the one I didn't "style". (A WWII vet actually hand wrote me a letter, and said "don't build the ugly duckling" referring to my "styled" version!)

I'll copy this over to the Zing thread, for the technical stuff. I'm fading, so will have to answer tomorrow.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

I missed where the pictures are posted? In this thread or elsewhere?

Some are here :
NVNTRS.com

[a8ksh4]

Just got a look at the photos. That looks great! I've been wondering about the best way to fashion doors for something like this. That seems like a good way to do it.

[pete c]

best way to fashion doors is to not.

doors are hard to make and the boneyards are chock full of them.

[drmiller100]

a few new pics up.

getting a LOT more interest from the import honda crowd then the mileage folks, so I bought a turbo for one car, and a nitrous kit for the next.