Buying a car - You guys have recommendations?

[dremd]

If you are interested in TDI's check out www.tdiclub.com , but be warned they tend to have "form" responses, most likely due to the fact that the search SUCKS.

<Following information is opinion>
DO NOT BUY AN AUTO TDI Get some other car if you want an Auto, I own 2 auto's in G***ers, they are great, but the TDI Auto SUCKS

</OPINION>
Best aero on top (claimed by TDI club members)
Jetta Wagon
Jetta
Golf
New Beetle

The 99.5~2003 ALH Will get better economy
the 2003~2006 PD Is less forgiving with alternative fuels (can definitely still be done) and gets worse economy, however it is smoother running, and more powerful.

If you do get a 2003+ MAKE SURE the correct oil was used, otherwise plan to throw an Cam, followers, an maybe injectors at it.

Don't be afraid of High mileage cars, mine still has plenty of cross hatching on the cylinder walls, uses no oil (can't tell differance on stick in 7,500 miles) all at 170,000 miles on the clock.

FYI they are one of the easiest cars to work on I've encountered, parts aren't bad $ wise. check out www.tdiparts.com

Timing belt DOES actually require special tools, no harder than most, but does require the tools. Factory is 60,000 miles, but for only a few more dollars you can get a stronger belt and larger tensioner that makes the belt good for 100,000 miles.
I don't know what they make the brakes out of, but they last forever, I've talked to SEVERAL people with over 250,000 miles on original pads/ rotors/ everything.

Clutches are long lasting as well.

Electrical system has a few quirks, nothing serious, or hard to fix, but there are a few things that fail on EVERY car.

MAF's do go bad, not worse than an adverage car, Temp sensors seam to go bad more frequently than most autos.

NO Spark Plugs, NO Wires, NO CAP/ Rotor NO O2 sensor

Mufflers rust easily on these cars, but to be honest you can barley tell the difference once it is gone (replace with straight pipe).

The ground clearance is Lower than average, may want a skid plate if you often encounter very bad roads

Handling is Quirkey, but very FUN

Oil changes on an ALH are cheap if you do it yourself, Oil is available at Walmart, and the job cost about $22 for a 10,000 mile oil change. Unsure about PD cost.

Interiors tend to rattle, some TLC is required if that bothers you.

Real world, adverage drivers MPG (Well educated guesses)

ALH 5 speed 42 City 46 Hwy
ALH Auto 37 City 40 Hwy (good friend has one, she gets worse than this)
PD 5 speed 39 city 44 Hwy
PD auto Ask someone else
PD Triptronic Ask someone else

I hope that makes it easier on you, I sure do wish I had known all of that when I first started looking.
Edit:
Is G~A~S~S~E~R a filtered word for some reason?

[thebrad]

Originally Posted by dremd

Is G~A~S~S~E~R a filtered word for some reason?

Censored because of "ass"

[dremd]

Originally Posted by thebrad

Censored because of "ass"

I actually figured that out later lol
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209&page=3


Back on topic

How concerned are you in regards to safety?

What kind of loads do you carry? Tow much?

[Harpo]

I had some money top spend on a economobile, and "stop droppin' coin" on driving the HEMI around everwhere. I looked, and looked, and had many options from $10K-$20K. In the end, I decided a 2-3 year old Civic (non-hybrid) fit best my conditions of 30+MPG, 4 seater, something the wife could drive, something I could mod and work on comfortably and have a life of five years (another 75K miles).

I alerted the Honda Dealer to call me when they got something in 2004-2005 as the last generations 2006+ were still drawing a premium. I decided saving $5K on purchase under what a 2006-2007 would cost me would go a long way to tires down the road, and fuel. Within a week, I had a pick of two. When I went back after driving one to purchase, it was already sold. However, while I was at the dealership, mine came driving in on a trade-in, so I took it after talking them in to getting it off the lot that day for $1K over what they gave for trade. A great deal, and great car, but best of all 10.8mpg more than I'd hoped!

[RH77]

Originally Posted by thebrad

Censored because of "ass"

Yeah, we're working on that...

[LostCause]

If it hasn't been mentioned before, a note of caution in taking the TDI route would be considering fuel costs.

If a Prius and a TDI have an equal sticker price and similar MPG, the Prius should have lower running costs. The TDI could be modified, but its modifications would have to net a MPG % increase greater than the % premium diesel has over gasoline.

I don't know how diesel varies nationwide, but I rarely see it below the price of 87 octane. If it's a cents/mile ratio that counts, the Prius wins. If it's an environmental issue, then neither car comes out ahead. A diesel actively pollutes more but a hybrid arguably has more energy invested and contains heavy metals.

- LostCause

[hvatum]

Originally Posted by dremd

I actually figured that out later lol
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209&page=3


Back on topic

How concerned are you in regards to safety?

What kind of loads do you carry? Tow much?

Thanks for the tips Dremd, also thanks cfg83 for the tip about plugin Prius's. That would be a neat thing to do down the road.

Safety is important to me, and it looks like the the Jetta or Golf end up a bit better on that count than the Prius. Cargo space is a must have, sometimes I need to move a lot of stuff, or go on vacation so an ultra small amount of storage space wouldn't work. More is great.

Which car would be better if I "have to" drive 65-75mph on the highway? I have a feeling the diesel might win here, but I'm not sure. I just calculated it out, and even though I make local trips every few days (use my E scooter for commuting) the BULK of my driving is long range. For Skiing and visiting family I drive 5,000 miles or more per year, almost all highway. Local driving nets me maximum 1,000, so 85% of my driving is highway driving.

If I didn't have the electric scooter there would be a lot of really short trips in there, but anything where I'm by myself and is under 2 miles away I bike.

Good point about Gas prices LOSTCAUSE, Diesel is more expensive here, I've heard it might get cheaper again once producers have paid for upgrading to low sulfur production methods... might

[Arminius]

I can't find a Prius for less that 12k in my area on cars.com.

[PaleMelanesian]

Highway driving - a Civic Hybrid, a Prius, or a TDI will all give you similar results. The TDI loses because of higher fuel costs.
City driving - the Prius wins, hands down. Last Friday I got to ride with a new Prius driver in Dallas rush hour traffic. Coached with the best of the best - Wayne from CleanMPG. 85mpg.

We did a cross-country drive last month with a 2003 civic hybrid 5-spd, 2008 civic hybrid cvt, a 2007 Prius and a euro-spec honda civic i-CDTi diesel. One of our drivers has a TDI at home and says they drive very much the same.
08 Civic cvt - 55 mpg
03 Civic mt - 60 mpg
Prius - 56 mpg
Civic i-CDTi - 60 mpg

Other than those, a used Civic / Corolla / Saturn with manual transmission would give you good results with a little more work.

[dremd]

Hard call on Diesel prices. "I" think that the price will become similar in time, but I could be very very wrong.

Bear in mind that you should subtract 5~7 mpg from a diesel when using "winter Diesel".

Does anyone know what the "Real World"/ average mileage is on a Prius? the 2 people I know with them have life time averages around 35 mpg, obviously you can get MUCH MUCH BETTER, but the same can be said with a TDI.


Overall I'd say that if you want to work for your mileage Go TDI If you don't go Hybrid.

With the TDI you can run SVO, a Blend, BioDiesel, or Just Regular Diesel.

Where as the Hybrid runs on Just regular Gasoline.

Another thing to take account of is what hybrid resale prices will be whenever you wish to sell it (unknown to me) , Diesels tend to stay valuable for much much longer/ higher mileage.

Above all Drive one of each, see how you like it.


EDIT:
If I just don't do anything stupid on the highway and drive 73~77 I get almost exactly 50 mpg+/- 1 mpg. (FYI My scangauge never works correctly, this is from fill ups)

Ask a Prius owner the same question.