Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Off-Topic > The Lounge
Register Now
 Register Now
 


Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-28-2020, 08:16 PM   #21 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 18,062
Thanks: 4,947
Thanked 5,971 Times in 4,774 Posts
I have to hand carry my laundry down to a cinder-block laundry room. Cursed or blessed, it's another day in paradise.

Quote:
I can sympathize...I often think of my work place (and maybe the rest of my life) as prison, and 20-cents an hour is about what I have to work with at the end of the day...
Nothing new — 1971
Quote:
Sometimes I think this whole world
Is one big prison yard
Some of us are prisoners
The rest of us are guards
Dylan —George Jackson

__________________
.
Good sense, innocence, cripplin' mankind
Dead kings, many things I can't define
Occasions, persuasions clutter your mind
Incense and peppermints, the color of time

Who cares what games we choose?
Little to win, but nothin' to lose


"Incense And Peppermints"
_________________
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 11-29-2020, 04:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 1,669

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 87
Thanked 948 Times in 630 Posts
On the original topic - a car is a durable good. As long as it has value it will get passed down from owner to owner and be used. Then when it has no value in one country it gets passed down to another. (Southeast Europe is full of old cars from Western Europe. Asia is full of cars from Japan, Latin America is full of cars from the USA) I don't see a big environmental difference of where someone chooses to buy into that car life cycle.

I personally like to buy used cars for financial reasons and will generally buy a 3 year old car for 60% of the new price and keep it until it is 10 years old. To me that is the sweet spot of ownership cost, features, and maintenance headaches. However, someone had to buy that car new for me to buy it used and the environmental cost of manufacturing is shared by every owner.

I do support the relatively recent moves to ban old cars for major cities. Old cars are massively more polluting than new cars and cities all over the world have major smog problems.

I have this dilemma with my old motorcycles. I have a 1976 and 1979 Kawasaki KZ400. They basically have no emission control systems and even when they are in good tune you can smell the unburned fuel behind them. I can't in good conscience commute to work on a vehicle that is putting out the pollution of 100 cars.

CARB doesn't have records back to 1976 but even the newer 1982 KZ440 puts out 1.44 grams of HC per mile and 11 grams of CO. That compares to 0.014 grams HC and 0.5 grams CO for my 2014 TDI. That is 103 times the HC and 22 times the CO.

Last edited by JSH; 11-29-2020 at 04:28 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
Cd (12-04-2020), freebeard (11-29-2020), ME_Andy (11-30-2020), roosterk0031 (11-30-2020)
Old 11-29-2020, 04:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Stubby79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,604

Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

Little Boy Blue - '05 Toyota Echo
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

BlueZ - '19 Nissan 370Z Sport
90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 67
Thanked 493 Times in 368 Posts
Time to install fuel injection and some kind of catalytic converter on your KZ400?

Or run propane and forget about it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 08:02 PM   #24 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 18,062
Thanks: 4,947
Thanked 5,971 Times in 4,774 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH
...a car is a durable good
Looking forward there is an interesting race. One or two million mile batteries are becoming a thing. At which point the 'powerplant' outlives the 'airframe'.

This is IMHO the most significant aspect of the Cybertruck. A chassis that can be handed down through generations without the resto-modding, or in military terms rear-echelon maintenance, stamped steel chassis require.
__________________
.
Good sense, innocence, cripplin' mankind
Dead kings, many things I can't define
Occasions, persuasions clutter your mind
Incense and peppermints, the color of time

Who cares what games we choose?
Little to win, but nothin' to lose


"Incense And Peppermints"
_________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
ME_Andy (11-30-2020), Piotrsko (11-30-2020)
Old 11-30-2020, 11:19 AM   #25 (permalink)
Somewhat crazed
 
Piotrsko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 1826 miles WSW of Normal
Posts: 1,493
Thanks: 148
Thanked 414 Times in 351 Posts
Yeah but a forever vehicle goes into the issues of obsolete technologies that require substantial time, skill, and money to upgrade. A prime example is the steering rack for split window ty 2 you posted. Few people leave their model T bone stock then use it as a daily driver.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Piotrsko For This Useful Post:
freebeard (11-30-2020)
Old 11-30-2020, 01:15 PM   #26 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 1,669

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 87
Thanked 948 Times in 630 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubby79 View Post
Time to install fuel injection and some kind of catalytic converter on your KZ400?

Or run propane and forget about it.
The problem with fuel injection is that to be much cleaner that a carb you need a closed loop system with feedback from an O2 sensor. It is a lot of work to fabricate and install a complete new intake and exhaust system and then tune it to run right. Even then the emission improvements will be modest - maybe only 25 times worse than a modern car.

I've thought of propane - much simpler for some pretty good emission improvements. The problem there is finding room for a propane tank of suitable size. I could always do the propane cylinder "saddlebag" method.


I've also thought of doing a sidecar which would provide plenty of room for some tanks.

The bigger problem is that the KZ400 is by any objective measure a pretty crappy motorcycle compared to anything remotely modern. The power is anemic, the brakes suck, and the suspension is basically poggo sticks. So why bother trying to turn an ancient 45 year old motorcycle into something remotely modern when a 2020 Honda CB300 will do everything better for less than $5K new or half that used?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2020, 01:23 PM   #27 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Stubby79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,604

Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

Little Boy Blue - '05 Toyota Echo
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

BlueZ - '19 Nissan 370Z Sport
90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 67
Thanked 493 Times in 368 Posts
I have a lovely 11lb bottle - 8" around - for such an experiment. One of these days. Refilling is the main headache, though as few rides I get a year, really shouldn't be too much of a deterrent.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2020, 01:34 PM   #28 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 1,669

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 87
Thanked 948 Times in 630 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubby79 View Post
I have a lovely 11lb bottle - 8" around - for such an experiment. One of these days. Refilling is the main headache, though as few rides I get a year, really shouldn't be too much of a deterrent.
If I'm doing my calculation correctly that is the equivalent of 1.9 gallons of gasoline. For my KZ400 that would be about 95 miles on a bottle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2020, 04:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Stubby79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,604

Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

Little Boy Blue - '05 Toyota Echo
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

BlueZ - '19 Nissan 370Z Sport
90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 67
Thanked 493 Times in 368 Posts
You're off by 1 gallon!

A pound is roughly a litre - nice and convenient, that - so its 2.9-3G.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2020, 06:13 PM   #30 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 1,669

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 87
Thanked 948 Times in 630 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubby79 View Post
You're off by 1 gallon!

A pound is roughly a litre - nice and convenient, that - so its 2.9-3G.
I was going by energy equivalent.

Propane is 4.2 lbs per gallon
Gasoline is 116,000 btu per gallon
Propane is 84,250 btu per gallon

11 lb / 4.2 = 2.62 gallons of propane
2.62 / (114,1000/84250) = 1.94 gallons gasoline equivalent.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com