Buying used, instead of new for environmental reasons -Pros and Cons ?

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

On the original topic - a car is a durable good. As long as it has value it will get passed down from owner to owner and be used. Then when it has no value in one country it gets passed down to another. (Southeast Europe is full of old cars from Western Europe. Asia is full of cars from Japan, Latin America is full of cars from the USA)

Paraguay and many other Latin American countries are full of old JDM cars, even though the cost of switching from RHD to LHD is not negligible at all. Sure there are other countries in Latin America where RHD is the standard, such as Jamaica and Suriname, which renders it even easier for second-hand JDM cars to be sold there.

I do support the relatively recent moves to ban old cars for major cities. Old cars are massively more polluting than new cars and cities all over the world have major smog problems.

I'd much rather look at engine swaps and eventually some upgrades to the stock engine whenever possible, instead of a ban.

I have this dilemma with my old motorcycles. I have a 1976 and 1979 Kawasaki KZ400. They basically have no emission control systems and even when they are in good tune you can smell the unburned fuel behind them. I can't in good conscience commute to work on a vehicle that is putting out the pollution of 100 cars.

I'd still rather consider some upgrades, or to rebuild a newer and fewer-polluting modern motorcycle with components of an older one for the classic looks. Not sure if you have ever seen anything about Bendita Macchina, a custom motorcycles shop that does it in Brazil.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

I'd much rather look at engine swaps and eventually some upgrades to the stock engine whenever possible, instead of a ban.

The problem with that is economics. Bringing an old car up to modern emission standards cost more than the car is worth.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

I'd still rather consider some upgrades, or to rebuild a newer and fewer-polluting modern motorcycle with components of an older one for the classic looks. Not sure if you have ever seen anything about Bendita Macchina, a custom motorcycles shop that does it in Brazil.

Euro 5 emissions / Classic looks / $5800 (in the USA)



Bendita Macchina appear to take a modern bike, make it look old-ish, and remove all the emission equipment. Doesn't do much for air quality.

[Stubby79]

Originally Posted by JSH

I was going by energy equivalent.

Propane is 4.2 lbs per gallon
Gasoline is 116,000 btu per gallon
Propane is 84,250 btu per gallon

11 lb / 4.2 = 2.62 gallons of propane
2.62 / (114,1000/84250) = 1.94 gallons gasoline equivalent.

For whatever reason, that didn't even cross my mind.

On the other hand...I wonder how much efficiency is gained by using a gaseous fuel at partial throttle...you'd have less vacuum to fight, ie less pumping losses. All I have to work off of is when I lent out my dual-fuel generator...they ran it all day and into the night and didn't even use up a 20lb tank. iirc.

[ME_Andy]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Looking forward there is an interesting race. One or two million mile batteries are becoming a thing. At which point the 'powerplant' outlives the 'airframe'.

This is IMHO the most significant aspect of the Cybertruck. A chassis that can be handed down through generations without the resto-modding, or in military terms rear-echelon maintenance, stamped steel chassis require.

What I wonder is, how will the steel bolts that hold the Cybertruck together fare after 20 years. I guess it will be fine. What does everybody else think?

[Piotrsko]

Depends on alloy and treatment. Some are sacrificial, some corrode the attaching part. Best would make the bolt the same material as the pan

[freebeard]

They have Sandy Munro on the case (parts count), and Elon Musk says "The best part is no part".

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

The problem with that is economics. Bringing an old car up to modern emission standards cost more than the car is worth.

Sometimes it's justifiable due to a historical value, or just personal preferences for an older model instead of going brand-new. Well, if we look at decreasing the environmental impact as a priority while resale value doesn't become a matter of concern, it actually makes sense.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Sometimes it's justifiable due to a historical value, or just personal preferences for an older model instead of going brand-new. Well, if we look at decreasing the environmental impact as a priority while resale value doesn't become a matter of concern, it actually makes sense.

The problem is for the vast majority of people cost is a primary matter of concern. Resto-mods are a thing for people that don't care about resale value but they are a small niche.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

Resto-mods are a thing for people that don't care about resale value but they are a small niche.

Sure it's not catering to the average Joe, neither are hot-rods for example. On a sidenote, in countries such as mine where even beaten old cars might retain a resale value not so negligible, engine swaps are not so uncommon at all. It's not unusual to see imports from the '90s, often from brands that are not available here anymore, repowered with Volkswagen or Chevrolet engines.

[oldtamiyaphile]

The only way buying used is more eco friendly is if you literally save a car from the crusher and repair it.

Otherwise, for there to be used cars someone has to buy them new, so it make no difference.

Here in Australia, the used car market is quite different.

Any car that's perceived to be 'reliable' will command a huge premium on the used market.

A 2 year old Toyota Hilux is only going to be $2k less than new, with say 40K miles on it.

A ten year old Corolla, with ~100K on it is likely to still cost half it's new price.
Of course the second owner will be the one spending big on repairs and maintenance.

With low interest rates new cars are the cheaper option, you're far better off using your used car money for a deposit on a new car, and you're not taking the used car gamble.