Buying used, instead of new for environmental reasons -Pros and Cons ?

[redpoint5]

There's got to be some tax avoidance or other manipulation going on to make used cars retain so much value in Australia. A new car in the US, with little market manipulation, will lose half its value in 5 years. The warranty pretty well covers any issues during that time frame, and after about 6 years is on the owner to repair.

[oldtamiyaphile]

I think it's simply that our cars don't rust, so there's no migration of good used cars into rust belt states (I assume that must be a pretty big thing in the US). Europe is another rust prone area and they have savage depreciation.

Paint work gets pretty beat up in the sun, but it still only applies to 10+ year old cars, where people will accept some cosmetic issues.

I don't think it's market manipulation because used Euros still go for pretty cheap. Some unloved stuff is OK too, like my Prius was $6k US with 60K on it after ten years, they cost $25k new. If anything that car has appreciated since.

But the mainstream market stuff is crazy. OTH I still haven't seen a Leaf much below $15k even though in our climate the battery is a major liability.

But Australia is a pretty closed market.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile

Australia is a pretty closed market

Not nearly as closed as Brazil. Even though there is the ADR issue and the RHD rule, at least Australia import laws are not so restrictive as in Brazil even though it might become quite expensive.

[racprops]

I bought a 2000 Mercury Grand Marques with 70K on it. I paid $3500.00 for it.

These are very cheap to repair.

IT got 29/30MPG at 65MPH all the time I owned it. And that was with the stock rear end gears of 3.27, and could most likely do a little better with the optional 2.73 gears.

I loss the engine hot rodding it a 145K.

I now run a better but worst MPG 03 Ford Crown Vic, with 180K for $450.00 with repairs it needed I ended up at around $1200.00 in it.

It gets 25MPG at 65MPH, 3:27 gears. I hope to improve on that soon. It too is a faster and much better handling car and is also as cheap to repair as needed.

My other cars/trucks are: 93 Chevy van, $3000.00 20 years ago 14MPG at 70 135K, 02 Ford Explorer cost $1000.00 25MPG at 65 130K, and a 2000 Toyota Camry Free from mother in law, repairs $700.00 32+ at 70 130K.

I love older cars...and as MPG seems to NOT get any way better other than a Tesla, I see NO reason to spend 20 times what I have in my cars to but ONE new car.

Rich

[Fat Charlie]

What's wrong with spending tens of thousands of dollars in order to save a few bucks a week at the pump?

[racprops]

I agree, seems silly so I spend very little and get nearly the same MPGs.

And I am not paying interest to borrow the money nor do I have to pay for high costly repairs and costly parts. In fact I can do 80% of all repairs my self.

Rich

[order99]

Well, being on the wrong side of the poverty line my entire life, I buy nearly used everything.

My cellphone is a 16-year-old Motorola, and I did buy that one new because it was the only way to get service back then in my region-but I have not upgraded and will not upgrade until the 3G signal is no longer supported (and since 5G takes infinite repeaters every friggen' mile and 4G is compatible with 3G it's going to be a looong time). I changed the batteries 6 years ago.

Nearly 90% of my clothing comes from Thrift Store (exceptions are socks, underwear, watch and most shoes). Why spend $25.00+ for a set of pants when I can get a decent set for $5.00 or so, with a decade or more of use remaining?

My 1993 Ford Festiva lasted 30 years to the day and then shorted out every electric component except the fusebox-and if I hadn't had over 525,000 miles on the engine, a shortage of parts and a $3500 estimate on a custom wiring harness I'd have fixed it up yet again! Between purchasing used ($700.00 at 95,000 miles) a rebuilt transmission($400.00 at 300,000 miles) and rear bearings on the left wheel($150.00 at 375,000 miles), I spent less than 1400.00 over my 20 years of ownership-gas, oil and insurance notwithstanding...best of all, my landlord bought her for $300.00, took her to Florida and had her refurbished and customized, so the Red Menace rides once more!

I purchased my 2015 Xenon 50cc scooter used with 2,000 miles on it for $500.00 (much better than the $1500.00+ new) upgraded the jets, muffler and intake for about 200.00 and ended up with a 45MPH cruiser averaging 130MPG (of course with NC speed limit for scooters at 35MPH the engine was always loafing). I drove it for over two years until some idiot texting on his cell knocked me into the ditch with a two-ton custom pickup-the recovery took awhile. Little Wing on the other hand, needed only $10.00 of fiberglass tape and epoxy, a rattlecan touch-up and a new mirror. Once the imbecile in the truck had been caught (yep, idiot tried a Felony hit-and-run) and settled out of court to avoid LOTS of prison time I purchased a 1998 Chevy S-10 for $900.00, let a mechanic go through it with a fine-toothed comb(1400.00 in repairs/upgrades) and now I don't worry so much about idiots texting...Little Wing was purchased by a fellow employee last August ($400.00 at 12,000 miles) so I still get to see my custom butterfly-stencil fairing pass by from time to time...

Until recently, I bought all my computers used-you can get one a few years out of date for roughly $30.00 at Habitat for Humanity and other places. Since i'm a Linux user, older hardware doesn't mean a thing. Last year was my only exception-A HP All-in-one with Terabyte HD, 4G of Ram and quad processor went on sale for $275.00 right after some idiot tried to steal my (obsolete) laptop and destroyed it in the process. So, given my computer needs, i'm probably set until 2029 or so...

I have never purchased a bicycle new, and never will as long as idiots keep buying them new and then dumpster them at the first sign of tire rot or chain stretch..my current grocery-getter is a 1974 Shabondama single speed from Japan, purchased by a soldier in Oahu and sold to me for $10.00 at a yard sale-two brand new tires and some lubricants ($40.00) and the critter is bulletproof. Over the years I have been riding bikes that collectors would pay hundreds for now, and yet they were often abandoned at trash pickups when I found them-I spent next to nothing on them, rode them like I stole them and gifted them to others who needed or wanted them more, and i'll bet most of them are still trundling down bike paths to this very day...

I am currently living in a 2002 Jayco, 21,000.00 new but purchased in 2013 for 7,900.00 (depreciation is insane on RVs) parked next to an 8X8 outbuilding for my workshop and storage-sadly, I paid full price for the outbuilding but I got what I paid for at least! The great thing about getting such a cheap living quarters is that you aren't afraid to modify it-the Jayco was originally a Bunkhouse style (three beds, pull-out couch and drop-down table for up to 10 sleepers at once) so the bedroom is now an office with a walk-in closet and I have lots of room and low heating/cooling costs (I drilled holes in the inner walls, filled them full of closed-cell foam one can at a time and painted them-R15 up to roughly R35 or so). This RV has withstood both a minor and a major hurricane-I am utterly, thoroughly impressed with this inexpensive frame on wheels...

In short, I would be dead in an alleyway somewhere if Used was not an option-but with it, I live pretty well. And if I suddenly find myself awash in more money than i'll ever need in my life, I doubt i'll stop being a bargain hunter-although if I do purchase new, i'll probably hire someone to design a vehicle or a dwelling custom-I mean, can you imagine one of these frames:

BugE Main Page Earth for Earthlings

With a modest 150cc powerplant, alternator system, plug-in for heated clothes and upgraded suspension, maybe modify the fairing just a touch? Highway speed Ecomobile,drooool....

[racprops]

Your a man after my own heart...although I do not go to your levels, I learned at 16 that two wheel bikes either foot or motor power were TOO dangerous and got a used car a 56 Studebaker for $300.00 (1965).

As I learned to fix nearly every thing have made out like you with nearly everything being used...but a few times did buy new, like my third computer a Pentium with Windows 3.11 just before win 95... and a fair smart phone so I can run apps on it...

And new tires after years of blow outs on used ones...

Rich

Originally Posted by order99

Well, being on the wrong side of the poverty line my entire life, I buy nearly used everything.

My cellphone is a 16-year-old Motorola, and I did buy that one new because it was the only way to get service back then in my region-but I have not upgraded and will not upgrade until the 3G signal is no longer supported (and since 5G takes infinite repeaters every friggen' mile and 4G is compatible with 3G it's going to be a looong time). I changed the batteries 6 years ago.

Nearly 90% of my clothing comes from Thrift Store (exceptions are socks, underwear, watch and most shoes). Why spend $25.00+ for a set of pants when I can get a decent set for $5.00 or so, with a decade or more of use remaining?

My 1993 Ford Festiva lasted 30 years to the day and then shorted out every electric component except the fusebox-and if I hadn't had over 525,000 miles on the engine, a shortage of parts and a $3500 estimate on a custom wiring harness I'd have fixed it up yet again! Between purchasing used ($700.00 at 95,000 miles) a rebuilt transmission($400.00 at 300,000 miles) and rear bearings on the left wheel($150.00 at 375,000 miles), I spent less than 1400.00 over my 20 years of ownership-gas, oil and insurance notwithstanding...best of all, my landlord bought her for $300.00, took her to Florida and had her refurbished and customized, so the Red Menace rides once more!

I purchased my 2015 Xenon 50cc scooter used with 2,000 miles on it for $500.00 (much better than the $1500.00+ new) upgraded the jets, muffler and intake for about 200.00 and ended up with a 45MPH cruiser averaging 130MPG (of course with NC speed limit for scooters at 35MPH the engine was always loafing). I drove it for over two years until some idiot texting on his cell knocked me into the ditch with a two-ton custom pickup-the recovery took awhile. Little Wing on the other hand, needed only $10.00 of fiberglass tape and epoxy, a rattlecan touch-up and a new mirror. Once the imbecile in the truck had been caught (yep, idiot tried a Felony hit-and-run) and settled out of court to avoid LOTS of prison time I purchased a 1998 Chevy S-10 for $900.00, let a mechanic go through it with a fine-toothed comb(1400.00 in repairs/upgrades) and now I don't worry so much about idiots texting...Little Wing was purchased by a fellow employee last August ($400.00 at 12,000 miles) so I still get to see my custom butterfly-stencil fairing pass by from time to time...

Until recently, I bought all my computers used-you can get one a few years out of date for roughly $30.00 at Habitat for Humanity and other places. Since i'm a Linux user, older hardware doesn't mean a thing. Last year was my only exception-A HP All-in-one with Terabyte HD, 4G of Ram and quad processor went on sale for $275.00 right after some idiot tried to steal my (obsolete) laptop and destroyed it in the process. So, given my computer needs, i'm probably set until 2029 or so...

I have never purchased a bicycle new, and never will as long as idiots keep buying them new and then dumpster them at the first sign of tire rot or chain stretch..my current grocery-getter is a 1974 Shabondama single speed from Japan, purchased by a soldier in Oahu and sold to me for $10.00 at a yard sale-two brand new tires and some lubricants ($40.00) and the critter is bulletproof. Over the years I have been riding bikes that collectors would pay hundreds for now, and yet they were often abandoned at trash pickups when I found them-I spent next to nothing on them, rode them like I stole them and gifted them to others who needed or wanted them more, and i'll bet most of them are still trundling down bike paths to this very day...

I am currently living in a 2002 Jayco, 21,000.00 new but purchased in 2013 for 7,900.00 (depreciation is insane on RVs) parked next to an 8X8 outbuilding for my workshop and storage-sadly, I paid full price for the outbuilding but I got what I paid for at least! The great thing about getting such a cheap living quarters is that you aren't afraid to modify it-the Jayco was originally a Bunkhouse style (three beds, pull-out couch and drop-down table for up to 10 sleepers at once) so the bedroom is now an office with a walk-in closet and I have lots of room and low heating/cooling costs (I drilled holes in the inner walls, filled them full of closed-cell foam one can at a time and painted them-R15 up to roughly R35 or so). This RV has withstood both a minor and a major hurricane-I am utterly, thoroughly impressed with this inexpensive frame on wheels...

In short, I would be dead in an alleyway somewhere if Used was not an option-but with it, I live pretty well. And if I suddenly find myself awash in more money than i'll ever need in my life, I doubt i'll stop being a bargain hunter-although if I do purchase new, i'll probably hire someone to design a vehicle or a dwelling custom-I mean, can you imagine one of these frames:

BugE Main Page Earth for Earthlings

With a modest 150cc powerplant, alternator system, plug-in for heated clothes and upgraded suspension, maybe modify the fairing just a touch? Highway speed Ecomobile,drooool....

[freebeard]

order99 — I was enjoying you narrative, but then you pivoted to the BugE. (delighted squeal)

Mark Murphy lived next to my landlord in the 1990s, and I stood in his garage and talked BugEs. Since then I've been more interested in the Arcimoto FUV. I've never bought a new vehicle in my life, but there aren't any used FUVs so far.

At Goodwill my price point is $8 for shoes, but last time I was there I found a pair at $17 I like a lot — but the tag was green so I got half off.

Dead in an alleyway sounds like an upgrade from dead in a ditch, in the rain.

[order99]

Originally Posted by racprops

Your a man after my own heart...although I do not go to your levels, I learned at 16 that two wheel bikes either foot or motor power were TOO dangerous and got a used car a 56 Studebaker for $300.00 (1965).

As I learned to fix nearly every thing have made out like you with nearly everything being used...but a few times did buy new, like my third computer a Pentium with Windows 3.11 just before win 95... and a fair smart phone so I can run apps on it...

And new tires after years of blow outs on used ones...

Rich

Well, I obviously don't skimp on tires, that would be dangerous-but since the rear ones wear faster than the fronts (rear-wheel drive) i'm not afraid to change the rear set every three years and the fronts every five (more likely to Rot than Wear on those).

As for two wheels in NC-some places are okay for Bicycles, some aren't. I've got plenty of MUP's in the Newport/Morehead area-but usually need to go a few miles in the truck to get there. As far as my scooter-I had no car and no bankroll, Little Wing was $500.00 and it was better than my feet in rural NC with the job 25 miles away...the's also the fact that it was so mechanically simple I could do my own repairs with a toolkit and flat stretch of dirt...why must modern cars be so effin' complicated?

And freebeard-I love the BugE design to death, Sadly, I could never use the Electric one as anything but a Grocery-getter, even with Lithiums...my nearest Family is a three hour drive one-way, alas. But a Gas version of same? I'd avoid the Interstates, curl down Hwy 24 to Old 111 and be there with only a 15 minute's difference, at possibly 100+ MPG at 45-55MPH...but we'll only know if I ever get the cash.