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Old 07-16-2021, 03:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Of course there is an arms race between the OEMs writing the software and the tuners trying to hack it and OEMs have really stepped up their game now that the market is moving to over-the-air software updates.
Encryption works until a copy is distributed to each end user.

Who besides Tesla is using over-the-air updates.

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Old 07-16-2021, 03:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Who besides Tesla is using over-the-air updates.
Almost every automaker does OTA updates for things like navigation and infotainment now. When you get to changing things like ECM software the list is more limited.

GM is doing on select models today and expects to have OTA updates across the full line by the end of 2023. (OTA requires a new electrical architecture so it takes time to role it out to dozens of models)

Ford has full OTA on the Mach-e and VW has full OTA on their newer EVs.

OTA updates for engine controls came to the HD market around 2018 and quickly rolled across the industry. Daimler, VW, Volvo and Paccar all have OTA updates today. I think Toyota (Hino) is the only manufacturer without OTA.
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Old 07-16-2021, 09:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Okay that sounds plausible to me but can you fail smog with a stock checksum just because the ECU's been tampered with before? That just sounds silly, it means any ECU that's been tampered with but restored to factory tune will fail.
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Old 07-16-2021, 09:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thx. I'm barely invested, my newest car [see avatar] has OBDII.

OTOH, the 1979 Dasher has a quartz clock in the dashboard! That ticks!
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Old 07-16-2021, 10:06 PM   #15 (permalink)
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As I mentioned before, I'd just never register in a county that requires a smog check. Mom "owned" my Acura until a few years ago. They wanna play games, I'll play and win. Dumb laws need to be exploited until they break so that they can be replaced with something sensible.

At this point, smog checks are probably pointless. I saw somewhere that 50% of failing vehicles get passed anyhow just because people want to be nice and pass others out of kindness considering Gaia doesn't care if an individual car pollutes more than others.
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Old 07-17-2021, 12:33 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Okay that sounds plausible to me but can you fail smog with a stock checksum just because the ECU's been tampered with before? That just sounds silly, it means any ECU that's been tampered with but restored to factory tune will fail.
It depends on whether CARB is checking the tamper bit or not.

Yes, it would mean an ECU that has been tampered with would fail. It also means people can't just flash they car back to stock for the test and then right back to the illegal tune.

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At this point, smog checks are probably pointless. I saw somewhere that 50% of failing vehicles get passed anyhow just because people want to be nice and pass others out of kindness considering Gaia doesn't care if an individual car pollutes more than others.
Odd that has never happened to me when I've failed a test. I don't think I even interacted with a human the last time I went to DEQ. They had a self service kiosk with a cord to plug into the OBDII.
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Old 07-17-2021, 12:39 AM   #17 (permalink)
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It depends on whether CARB is checking the tamper bit or not.

Yes, it would mean an ECU that has been tampered with would fail. It also means people can't just flash they car back to stock for the test and then right back to the illegal tune.



Odd that has never happened to me when I've failed a test. I don't think I even interacted with a human the last time I went to DEQ. They had a self service kiosk with a cord to plug into the OBDII.
My recollection was from some local PDX news story; probably among the last I ever watched over a decade ago.
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Old 07-18-2021, 02:00 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Makes me wonder how those aftermarket programmable ECUs would fare under such test, even if they can be set up to a stock tune when a stock replacement ECU is hard to obtain.
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Old 07-18-2021, 10:20 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Afaik, the software mirrors all the CALI requirements even if it circumvents the OE patents. Cali has a spec to use the tamper bit, but there may not be a requirement to reset or update that bit, OR, the programmer could just ignore changing it. Not like it's an EPROM that comes set to '1's that you have to write zeroes and then open the case, zap with a UV light to erase or rewrite.

It's also not that hard to coment out a compiled line of code on a test computer. In Pascal or C++ it's a couple of [], much like the quote or font codes here.
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Old 07-18-2021, 11:51 AM   #20 (permalink)
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It is also import to think about legal liability for the tuner. Tuners today work under the legal framework that it is legal to modify emissions equipment for vehicles that will only be used off-road or for competition use. Tuners do the old wink and a node and claim everyone that buys their tunes (or other aftermarket parts) is using them legally off-road even though they know the vast majority of of what they sell is used illegally on-road. However, there is a little bit of plausible deniability.

The "off-road only" argument no longer applies and plausible deniability disappears once they flip the tamper bit. There is no reason to flip a tamper bit back - the vehicle will work just fine with it flipped. Once you flip it back to fool a manufacturer or pass an emission test with illegal software the tuner is committing fraud and emission tampering.

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