Calling things "Green" when it's just about making more money

[gone-ot]

...quoting Gordon Gekko, "...GREED is GOOD..." hence "...GREEN GREED is GOODER..." because it's good for you, good for the environment, good for the economy, and good for the gobberment.

...now, please bend over, drop your drawers, and cough.

[redpoint5]

At my job (silicon wafer fab), coffee is free in every break room and office. It's a small price for the company to pay to keep productivity up.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Do not drink coffee, save a buck or two a day (if you make it yourself instead of buying at coffee shop).

Do not drink coffee, watch work productivity collapse, get laid off...

Considering the difference between a salary and typical unemployment insurance payments, this seems like a false economy :-)

Quitting caffeine was among the best decisions I have made. You get used to not needing the "boost" to function normally. I don't get headaches from lack of caffeine intake anymore, and when I do need a "boost", a single can of pop will keep me awake for hours.

That said, I'm pulling 16hr days this week... probably going to have a very small cup of coffee this afternoon. The stuff is delicious.

[TheEnemy]

I was briefly involved in some research concerning the RoHS in particular the removing lead from the solder used in electronic circuits and the resulting problems (tin whiskers, weaker connections etc).

The decision to remove lead from solder was done at the political level, not on a scientific or even technical level. Money wasn't even really available for the research to find a better solution.

Even though their appears to be a process for lead free solders to be at least nearly as good as leaded solder I still wonder how many consumer electronics failed early and wound up in our landfills because somebody decided it would be a good idea without asking anyone who would know any problems associated with it.

[gone-ot]

...ask the military and aerospace boys about "tin whiskers" as we've been aware and fighting this issue since the 1980's. It's not a good thing to have a multi-billion dollar satellite sudden "die" in space because a 'whisker' has grown long enough to contact something it shouldn't; nor to have your air-to-missle go "ballistic" instead of chasing the enemy during an aerial dogfight.

...ironically, the medical business (pacemakers, defibrillators, etc.) hasn't had 'whisker' problems (yet).

[redpoint5]

Most items marketed as "green" are either barely better for the environment, or actually worse. Profit motivates everyone to slap a green label on something if they can get away with it. People pay the higher prices to either feel less guilty about the fact that living involves consumption, or to be counted among the elite planet savers of the world.

Take local, organic food for instance. It takes several fold more land to farm without pesticides and fertilizers, especially when growing something not adapted for the region. Plus, it takes way more fuel to move many small trucks a short distance to a local market than to move 1 big ship full of food a long distance. These small food operations are almost never better for the environment.

Generally, if something costs more than a comparable product, then it takes more inputs (resources) to produce. This is why purchasing decisions based on price are often the true "green" option.

[jalmir]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Take local, organic food for instance. It takes several fold more land to farm without pesticides and fertilizers, especially when growing something not adapted for the region. Plus, it takes way more fuel to move many small trucks a short distance to a local market than to move 1 big ship full of food a long distance. These small food operations are almost never better for the environment.

Generally, if something costs more than a comparable product, then it takes more inputs (resources) to produce. This is why purchasing decisions based on price are often the true "green" option.

where are you getting your propaganda weed???

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by jalmir

where are you getting your propaganda weed???

I don't smoke weed because I want to reduce CO2 emissions.

Do you object to anything stated, or am I just crazy because I don't follow the current fads?

[jalmir]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Do you object to anything stated?

of course, stating that local markets and farms are less green that the food brought from overseas is ridiculous!!!

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by jalmir

of course, stating that local markets and farms are less green that the food brought from overseas is ridiculous!!!

Never said overseas, but it isn't necessarily ridiculous either. For instance, it's likely cheaper and better for the environment for sugar to be shipped from Brazil than to produce it locally (Oregon) where I live. Brazil simply gets more sugar per acre than we can produce, and shipping in bulk doesn't consume much fuel per unit of shipped good.

I was also careful to use non-definitive words. It would be more "green" for cherries, strawberries, etc to be grown locally to me than to have them shipped from elsewhere. The prices often reflect this as off-season produce rises in price when it has to be transported further distances.

Environmentally poor(er) choices generally carry higher prices. Most would consider fracking to be an environmentally poor way to extract oil, but then again it costs significantly more than pumping it by conventional means.

I'm not saying cheaper is always the better option for the environment, but it usually is. Forests are replanted after harvesting not just because a law says it must be replanted, but because logging operators understand that sustained revenue requires sustainable practices. For all other times, regulation is the answer.

[niky]

If you exclude taxes inherent in crossing borders, cheaper items generally mean more efficient production and use of resources. This is the philosophy I subscribe to, also. The bugbear is when these things are merely cheaper due to lax environmental safeguards in the country of origin or sweatshop labor pricing... so caveat emptor, cave canem and carpe dinero, or whatever.