Chemical hydrogen production NOT electrolysis

[jakobnev]

In all fairness; a rear facing tube loaded with ALICE might be useful against tailgaters tho.

[mario.silva]

I agree it' not practical today due to lack of infrastructures.

The byproducts can be 99% recicable at the expense of lots of electric energy to bring back the aluminum. This for me is the downsize.

Do you recycle "elemental aluminum" instead of throwing you beer can to the trash?

The price of aluminum vs gasoline per mile compensates. (Europe speaking)

You can burn it in combustion engine directly instead of using expensive fuel cells (and having energy losses through the system).

And trust me, I do not make any money for saying this neither I'm trying to sell nothing.
It is just an alternative way that i wanted to share.

As far as i know, car manufactors are making now an exellent work.
They are using all the ideas you see here in this website with modern and strong alloys and compounds. To bad for the legal constrains and tight budjets they have to respect.

Best regads and thanks for the reply's

[Air-Hybrid]

Originally Posted by mario.silva

The byproducts can be 99% recyclable at the expense of lots of electric energy to bring back the aluminum. This for me is the downside.

Do you recycle "elemental aluminum" instead of throwing you beer can to the trash?

There's recyclable and 'Recyclable' - the aluminium beer can is still pretty much all elemental metal, so it only has to be melted back down again; a tiny fraction of the energy needed to electrically reduce (aka split-off oxygens) your Al2O3 powder in an arc furnace.

Originally Posted by mario.silva

The price of aluminum vs gasoline per mile compensates.

Not 'price' in terms of energy it doesn't. But, that aside, what evidence is there that using aluminium to make [some?] H2 that is to 'assist' a gasoline engine will save you or me any money whatsoever?

Originally Posted by mario.silva

It is just an alternative way that i wanted to share.

Of course, it's interesting to see what's possible and I expect for some very specific areas this way of 'making' hydrogen can find good use, but I wouldn't bother using this (or any other) method to add H2 into a car engine, as the returns will be, at best, unnoticeable.
... As an aside, there are Aluminium-Air (electrical) batteries that hold much promise for the future of BEVs.

[mario.silva]

Originally Posted by Air-Hybrid

There's recyclable and 'Recyclable' - the aluminium beer can is still pretty much all elemental metal, so it only has to be melted back down again; a tiny fraction of the energy needed to electrically reduce (aka split-off oxygens) your Al2O3 powder in an arc furnace.

-Yes, we know that.

Originally Posted by Air-Hybrid

Not 'price' in terms of energy it doesn't. But, that aside, what evidence is there that using aluminium to make [some?] H2 that is to 'assist' a gasoline engine will save you or me any money whatsoever?

-It's in several studies

Originally Posted by Air-Hybrid

...but I wouldn't bother using this (or any other) method to add H2 into a car engine, as the returns will be, at best, unnoticeable.

-Far from true

Originally Posted by Air-Hybrid

... As an aside, there are Aluminium-Air (electrical) batteries that hold much promise for the future of BEVs.

-Promisses promisses... but I really hope so! such as Graphene batteries...
I'm all forward to "Low cost production/resource available/recyclable/nano/efficient electric batteries" and I'm hopping for that day to come.

[Air-Hybrid]

Originally Posted by mario.silva

[Evidence that using aluminium to make (some?) H2 that is to 'assist' a gasoline engine will save money] is in several studies.

Please would you be kind enough to reference these studies.

Originally Posted by mario.silva

It's far from true [that adding H2 into a car engine, as the returns will be, at best, unnoticeable].

Perhaps, but why choose hydrogen over say propane?

Originally Posted by mario.silva

-Promisses promisses... but I really hope so! such as Graphene batteries...
I'm all forward to "Low cost production/resource available/recyclable/nano/efficient electric batteries" and I'm hopping for that day to come.

Me too (all those developments sound good)... the future will be a far more mixed affair when it comes to where how we meet our diverse energy needs.

[mario.silva]

1- I can not find the best studies, but here it goes some I just found:

MIT:
Green Car Congress: Hydrogen-Enhanced Combustion Engine Could Improve Gasoline Fuel Economy by 20% to 30%

Idaho National Laboratory:
Advanced Vehicle Testing Activity- Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engine Vehicles


2- Propane - Fossil Fuel


3- True

[Air-Hybrid]

Originally Posted by mario.silva

2- Propane - Fossil Fuel

I had a feeling you'd say that... Which implies that you believe the Aluminium route to fuel-saving doesn't rely on fossil-fuels. In fact Aluminium->H2 will 'wheel-to-well' (and BTU for BTU) almost certainly consume much larger amounts of fossil-fuel than an equivalent system with propane would; as electric arc-furnaces require truly huge quantities of electric power to operate, and overall the efficiency of turning (via electrolysis) bauxite into aluminium, then using the Al to split water for H2 injection into a inefficient spark IC engine is totally a false (environmental) economy.

W.r.t. the articles supporting H2 injection, yes I knew that injecting the gas does have advantages (providing you are not doing it via electrolysis via the alternator) but I was hoping to see evidence that supported you assertion that:
"using aluminium to make H2 that is to 'assist' a gasoline engine will save money."

Even if there are arguments that this kind of system can reduce our overall expenses on petrol (+ Al powder costs), I don't see why it will be cheaper than some already accepted solutions - solutions that [Also] use cheap fossil-fuels and their derivatives.

[mario.silva]

I'm not saying there's a free luch... just an alternative.
I'll try to get back the proper documentation analisys for you.

At long term I still think it's better for a country to renew aluminum in their back-yard by using stationary renewable green energies (...ho, what a beautiful world...), rather than go to war to get hydrocarbon based fuels from another country...

it's just a quest of finding a "closed loop" system where you can put and store energy in a box, and than you open that box whenever you want to release that energy it basically...

Al could not essencially be in powder form... neither the ultimate chemical solution.

And now we are talking about politics... haha

[Air-Hybrid]

Originally Posted by mario.silva

At long term I still think it's better for a country to renew aluminum in their back-yard by using stationary renewable green energies (...ho, what a beautiful world...), rather than go to war to get hydrocarbon based fuels from another country.

There's very little likelihood that the aluminium powder (or whatever form it takes) that is consumed in your reactor can ever be sensibly 'renewed' in your backyard.

Perhaps, if all fossil fuels are off limits for your homebrew fuel-savers, then maybe check out (old) technologies like wood-gas and similar alternatives.

Though I expect we agree on much of the wider politics behind this, there is still a practical and economical limit to which of the multitude of emerging techs will help us replace oil, gas & coal... and IMO this ain't a good candidate.

[Air-Hybrid]

Also:
Thermochemical production of Hydrogen
see:
iron oxide cycle,
cerium(IV) oxide-cerium(III) oxide cycle,
zinc zinc-oxide cycle,
sulfur-iodine cycle,
copper-chlorine cycle,
hybrid sulfur cycle
... no mention of aluminium here.