Chevy Volt and GM Get Big Boost From $700B Bailout Vote Today

[cfg83]

NeilBlanchard -

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Hi,

The Aptera Typ-1e (aka Local) will get ~$4,100.

And BTW, the Aptera will be on 60 Minutes this Sunday evening, in the segment called "THE RACE FOR THE ELECTRIC CAR".

I saw that segment, but it was mostly about the GM Volt and the Tesla. The Aptera looked like stock footage, .

CarloSW2

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

They let Lutz blither on, when he admits that they don't know how to build an electric for less than $40K -- and even that will be at a loss.

They should have asked for more details from Tesla and/or Aptera -- and they should have mentioned the price and range of the Aptera. Very disappointing CBS and Lesley Stahl.

Here's their site with the video:

The Race For The Electric Car, Competition To Build A Viable Electric Car Heats Up, As Silicon Valley Gets Into The Game - CBS News

The Mk-1 appears at ~8:04 until 8:21 -- so, yeah 15 seconds, and then they cast doubt about them using electricity from coal...

Some of the other start-ups in California are less conventional, like the all-electric, three-[wheeled] Aptera, due out this Christmas. But one issue with all these cars is that much of the electricity to power them would come from burning coal, which produces greenhouse gases. So they're not necessarily the perfect green solution.

[bennelson]

GM to crank price

Plugin Prius is coming

Batt pack size not an issue

Weight is weird


On a couple of issues here:

1. I can NOT IMAGINE manufacturers INCREASING the cost of an electric car by the value of the tax credit. Electric cars already cost too much and there is VERY little demand for them.

GM is on the verge of going broke if they don't make hybrids and electrics start working for them real soon. If the VOLT fails, it could become the straw that breaks the camels back. GM is not going to risk that to potentially make an extra $7500 per car.

2. The (non-aftermarket) Plug-in Prius is coming soon, along with pure EV cars from all manufacturers, although, yes, it is obvious that this will benefit GM first and most.

3. Battery pack size is not an issue here. Any EV with respectful range would qualify for the full credit. The cheap pack I just threw in my Citicar equals 7.2 KW the way they measure it. That's a good chunk of the credit right there. (Too bad it's not a NEW car!)

4. The weight issue effecting the value of the tax credit is unfortunate. This does sound strikingly similar to how the government influenced the rise of the SUV. I can imagine manufacturers designing vehicles that weigh one pound more than the cut off limit, just for the extra tax credit. Consumers then may go for it, even though the vehicle would cost that much more, and be less efficient, just for a tax credit. (I know, it doesn't make sense, but most people's buying decisions are NOT based on logic!)


Even though this economic bail-out is a rediculous thing to do, and we, the tax-payers, are all paying for it, it's my hopes that this does nothing but promote Plug-in vehicles.

(As a side note, there is also some good tax credits in there for wind energy generation, and alternative fueling stations.)

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

Here's a longer bit from "60 Minutes" on the Aptera, that got edited out of the broadcast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_i8ryc2udQ

[Matt Herring]

Bennelson,

I was thinking more that while GM would try to keep the Volt at a reasonable MSRP that the actual dealerships would be the ones marking up the cars based on the tax credit.

Kind of like when buying a car at a dealership and you having a trade-in the sales guys will always offer more for your trade than you think it is worth but then have less wiggle room on the drop in the sticker price. In the end, it ends up being the same discount on sticker whether they offer more for your trade and less off the sticker or vice versa.

Also, I was bummed to see the weight of the car as a factor in the tax credit. The government could have done anything they wanted with the EV tax credit and they screwed it up by adding that stipulation and a few others (obviously influenced by GM).

I can't wait for 5-6 years down the road when every major auto maker and a few smaller ones have higher-quality PHEV's on the market and they actually have to compete to sell a car (with lower prices and better comforts). As it stands now, GM will make a bundle of money with an expensive, soon-to-be-surpassed car and then get run over by all the other higher-quality PHEV's from other auto makers. Depressing...but that's the "take the money and run" American companies motto these days.

[toyobug]

Originally Posted by Matt Herring

I was bummed to see the weight of the car as a factor in the tax credit. The government could have done anything they wanted with the EV tax credit and they screwed it up by adding that stipulation and a few others (obviously influenced by GM).

I can't wait for 5-6 years down the road when every major auto maker and a few smaller ones have higher-quality PHEV's on the market and they actually have to compete to sell a car (with lower prices and better comforts). As it stands now, GM will make a bundle of money with an expensive, soon-to-be-surpassed car and then get run over by all the other higher-quality PHEV's from other auto makers. Depressing...but that's the "take the money and run" American companies motto these days.

The weight stipulation is our government cowing down to big business yet again. We all know why.....they don't like the threat of competition from the likes of Aptera, Zenn, etc... Piss poor judgment from our government yet again.