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Old 12-19-2010, 08:50 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I've not been paying enough attention to all these GM dealings, or bankruptcy in general:

GM bailout repayment?!? "it looks like GM merely used one source of TARP funds to repay another. The taxpayers are still on the hook"
How did GM pay off its bailout loans? Hot Air

GM transfer of assets from old to new (apparently bankruptcy = license to steal from shareholders):
UPDATED: Judge Approves GM Assets Sale, Company Will Get $19 Billion More
"Here GM, have 96 billion to buy yourself, forget the investors and tax payers"

Man, I've been asleep too long here, had no idea this is how things worked, sounds so completely crooked to me. Am I missing something obvious?

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Old 12-19-2010, 09:13 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Two little points:

1: Lithium can be resued, so the pollution "invested" in the mining will be less significant in the long run.

2: Gas prices will continue to increase and you will be in the black much sooner than 30 years.

3: You'll be able to charge this thing from, for example, a wind generator you built yourself, and that's priceless.

Ok, three little points..
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Old 12-19-2010, 09:29 AM   #13 (permalink)
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It is a beautiful piece of technology. That being said, it is NOT going to change the world, at least not in the short term. Why? Cost. Most people will look at a car that is for all intents and purposes a very good hybrid variant of the Cruze ( they share the same chassis in a lot of places) and walk away. The ones who won't are the early adopters with the cash to invest in such a car.

To be honest, if GM were REALLY concerned about fuel efficient transportation for the masses, it would partner with Toyota to bring the Aygo in from Europe. It's basic transportation that uses very little fuel, is inexpensive to make and sells for a reasonable price. People of limited means could buy one and use it as an X factor to help control their living expenses. It's a 3 cylinder Metro for the present day that passes European crash tests and could likely be made to work here as well. However, this isn't about that. This is a halo car meant to green wash GM and make up for all those years spent puking out huge numbers of full size SUVs. Oh wait.... they still do that, don't they.
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Old 12-19-2010, 10:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I don't see this thing being profitable and will end up just like the EV1. Only GM would try to build an electric car you refuel with gasoline.

One post I got from the Chevy Volt facebook page is that it uses 8 or 9 million lines of code, the Navy's most advanced stealth fighter only needs 4 or 5. Not something I would be bragging about on my own facebook page.
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Old 12-19-2010, 10:06 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I don't see the Volt ever being profitable. Chevy Volt's own facebook page says they use 8 or 9 million lines of code and the Navy's most advanced stealth fighter only needs 5 or so. Not something I would be bragging about. I see the Volt going the way of the EV1.

Only GM would peddle an electric car that you refuel with gasoline.
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Old 12-19-2010, 01:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The leaf with limited range is msrp at $32,780. Limited range, probably going to tank and be the most unsuccessful ever, ever, ever. Just saying. Seriously, would anyone be willing to pay $8,000 more and have an engine and unlimited driving range? Nope, that is why the cruze, I mean volt, will be unsuccessful. And, after all these downfalls, the volt shares a platform with another vehicle, damn those profit (or limited loss) mongers. I am sure that the Leaf is a completely unique platform, along with the prius, the insight, and all the other vehicles on the market. My thoughts, they should have let the companies tank. Chrysler, tank (the first time), Chevrolet, tank. We definitely dont need insolvent companies sucking off the gov teet.
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Old 12-19-2010, 01:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonG View Post
Just like then, wheres all the advertisements ?
They've got a waiting list of people wanting one, and lots of press coverage & word of mouth, so why in the world would they need to spend money on advertising?
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Old 12-19-2010, 02:04 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autoteach View Post
The leaf with limited range is msrp at $32,780. Limited range, probably going to tank and be the most unsuccessful ever, ever, ever. Just saying. Seriously, would anyone be willing to pay $8,000 more and have an engine and unlimited driving range? Nope, that is why the cruze, I mean volt, will be unsuccessful. And, after all these downfalls, the volt shares a platform with another vehicle, damn those profit (or limited loss) mongers. I am sure that the Leaf is a completely unique platform, along with the prius, the insight, and all the other vehicles on the market. My thoughts, they should have let the companies tank. Chrysler, tank (the first time), Chevrolet, tank. We definitely dont need insolvent companies sucking off the gov teet.
The original Prius shared it's platform with the Echo and the new Insight shares it's platform with the Fit. Platform sharing is to be expected for a niche product like the Volt. It is a way to test the waters with a new technology without having to engineer everything from whole cloth. If it succeeds, then the subsequent generations will likely evolve to be on their own unique platforms.

As for success or failure, I don't think it will be a commercial success. However, I don't think it is intended to be. It's a halo car like the Corvette. It exists to bring good press to the parent company and as such it has succeeded. Will it sell by the hundreds of thousands and supplant the Camry at the top of the US market? No. The Sonata has a better shot at doing that ( and it's very efficient in it's own right!). Then again, the Volt's technology may well find its way into future, cheaper cars and bring up fleet fuel economy. However, that will all depend on battery technology and bringing the price down on better batteries. That is, after all, the whole reason why hybrids remain such a niche product today some 11 or 12 years after they first were introduced to the US market.
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Old 12-19-2010, 02:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Jim-Bob,
I was being sarcastic in defusing the volt hatred which is centered on a number of issues such as range, cost, platform sharing, GM the company, "the better alternatives", and other issues, some of which are non arguments altogether. GM may not be your cup of tea, Ford is not mine, but I don't criticize, in repeated threads, any single model from their lineup. Platform sharing...Show me a company that doesnt. Cost, just because Toyota and Honda take total diggers on the cost to manufacturer these vehicles doesnt mean that every company should. Range?, lets not even begin do debate that by using the Leaf as a comparison point where when you are out, you are out and looking for a tow truck.

Like I have said before, give the vehicle time. Time to shine, or time to suck. Speculation is exactly what it sounds like, uneducated guesses at outcomes. And the reason that they are uneducated is that we know so little about this drivetrain or platform. Do I think it will be a success? I have to ask what is the metric?
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Old 12-19-2010, 05:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autoteach View Post
The leaf with limited range is msrp at $32,780. Limited range, probably going to tank and be the most unsuccessful ever, ever, ever. Just saying. Seriously, would anyone be willing to pay $8,000 more and have an engine and unlimited driving range? Nope, that is why the cruze, I mean volt, will be unsuccessful. And, after all these downfalls, the volt shares a platform with another vehicle, damn those profit (or limited loss) mongers. I am sure that the Leaf is a completely unique platform, along with the prius, the insight, and all the other vehicles on the market. My thoughts, they should have let the companies tank. Chrysler, tank (the first time), Chevrolet, tank. We definitely dont need insolvent companies sucking off the gov teet.
While I agree with you about letting failing companies fail, I have to disagree about the Leaf.

I have already heard of one of the first owners getting a range in excess of 100 miles without using hypermiling techniques. That kind of range is more than twice my daily range that I need. And to boot, the cost to recharge is equal to paying 40 to 50 cents per gallon for gasoline. Not to mention the fact that an electric car is almost maintenance free compared to an I.C.E.

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