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Old 12-21-2010, 05:34 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
At what cost, though? Start with the fact that electricity is about the most inefficient way to create heat, then figure out how much of that expensive heat is leaking out of the poorly-insulated* cabin, and then estimate what that does to your range & overall driving efficiency.

*Even if you added insulation, which most IC-engine cars don't 'cause heat's free, you still have those large glass areas.
You are forgetting about the most efficient way to heat or cool. They electric heat pump. The Prius uses electric heat and I believe so do other current parallel hybrids. I talk to a lot of EV owners who use either ceramic heating elements or inline water heaters for the cars existing heater core, and in both cases range their range is not significantly decreased.

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Old 12-21-2010, 11:03 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jason1973tl View Post
You are forgetting about the most efficient way to heat or cool. They electric heat pump.
Nope, I'm not forgetting that, but it's still less efficient than using waste heat from a genset, plus heat pumps are expensive, and probably heavy. So you've got a choice between added weight of expensive heat pump which detracts from range, and the genset which lets you reduce weight & expense of batteries while giving unlimited range. To me, it seems the only argument in favor of the first option is that it lets you brag that you're an EV purist.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:16 AM   #43 (permalink)
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To me, it seems the only argument in favor of the first option is that it lets you brag that you're an EV purist.
In a sense yes. I want a pure EV. I think the simplicity will allow me to own it for decades, not years. And an EV with a range of 100 miles is more than enough for all my driving except for the occasional road trip, which we drive my wife's Toyota Yaris for anyways.
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Old 12-22-2010, 05:37 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Funny that many of you guys are complaining about no ads for the volt. Maybe I just happen to see them in the media I use. They're advertising on pandora (music site) and on the back of several magazines with the "car of the year" seal of approval.

Some good counterpoints out there to some of my concerns; I wasn't figuring on the $7500 tax credit - forgot about that hidden bailout. Just hope there are enough early adopters on the gadget for them to improve and lower cost on a Gen 2.

Still looks to me like the high MPGs being so short lived and the low MPG once the battery is drained are huge problems. Fix one or the other and you'll have a car.
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:54 PM   #45 (permalink)
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gascort -

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Originally Posted by gascort View Post
Funny that many of you guys are complaining about no ads for the volt. Maybe I just happen to see them in the media I use. They're advertising on pandora (music site) and on the back of several magazines with the "car of the year" seal of approval.

...
Hmmm, I see them in a lot of places, including billboards.

However, on the net I know I am seeing targeted ads because places I go have ads that "follow me" from one website to the next.

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Old 12-22-2010, 10:46 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jason1973tl View Post
In a sense yes. I want a pure EV. I think the simplicity will allow me to own it for decades, not years. And an EV with a range of 100 miles is more than enough for all my driving except for the occasional road trip, which we drive my wife's Toyota Yaris for anyways.
Well, different needs. (Though I must note that I'm approaching 8 years on the Insight, with nothing else I'd want to replace it with - except a Tesla, and there's no way I'd spend that much on a car.) I do make quite a few trips over 100 miles (round trip). Beyond that, a lot of my driving involves going up mountains. 15-20 miles with a 4500 ft elevation gain is a lot different from the same distance on the flat. And then there's the issue of how much sustained current you can draw from a battery pack, too.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:33 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Well, different needs. (Though I must note that I'm approaching 8 years on the Insight, with nothing else I'd want to replace it with - except a Tesla, and there's no way I'd spend that much on a car.)
I too am looking to replace a current car. But as you stated, I do not see anything that I would want to buy. I think anything beyond 20 grand is way too expensive.
I have been looking at articles about the Avion. I think I will pattern my custom build I am working on in the garage after it. It recently broke its record at 113mpg. Not bad for a pure gasoline car.
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Old 12-26-2010, 03:12 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Early adopters of new tech don't care about the bottom line- their motivation is to be the first to have something new. I think the Volt is for early adopters.

Another point about new tech and early adopters is that oftentimes, as time goes on and the product shows promise of success in the marketplace, the price goes down.

A third point I'd like to make is that I think Volt is a good thing if for no other reason than to get such a hybrid system out of the lab and into the hands of the public out in the real world. Valuable things will be learned, regardless of how YOU feel about Volt.
Here's an early adopter :

Jay Leno loves his new Chevrolet Volt | Yahoo! Green

Of course, Jay can afford to adopt whatever he wants, .

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Old 01-06-2011, 11:26 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Early sales stats, Volt vs. Leaf:

GM leads Nissan in December electric car sales as supply trickles in | VentureBeat

Quote:
The Volt went into production in mid-November and hit dealerships a few weeks later, just in time to compete with the Nissan Leaf. So far it looks like the Volt has won out in terms of sheer numbers — GM sold between 250 and 350 Volts in December. Only around 10 Nissan Leaf cars were actually sold in the past two weeks.
There are around 50,000 people on the wait list for the Leaf, but Nissan initially limited rolling out its new electric vehicle line to around 200 cars in December across five states. The Leaf is around $8,000 cheaper than the Chevy Volt. Leaf Supply will continue to be limited well into early 2011, and Nissan has advised dealers to be careful about what kind of orders they sign for the Leaf.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:26 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Early sales stats, Volt vs. Leaf:

GM leads Nissan in December electric car sales as supply trickles in | VentureBeat

Quote:
The Volt went into production in mid-November and hit dealerships a few weeks later, just in time to compete with the Nissan Leaf. So far it looks like the Volt has won out in terms of sheer numbers — GM sold between 250 and 350 Volts in December. Only around 10 Nissan Leaf cars were actually sold in the past two weeks.

There are around 50,000 people on the wait list for the Leaf, but Nissan initially limited rolling out its new electric vehicle line to around 200 cars in December across five states. The Leaf is around $8,000 cheaper than the Chevy Volt. Leaf Supply will continue to be limited well into early 2011, and Nissan has advised dealers to be careful about what kind of orders they sign for the Leaf.

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