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Old 12-17-2009, 05:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
Honda to used the EPA numbers in it's adverising. If honda didn't believe those numbers to be accurate, then they shouldn't appear anywhere other than the gov mandated window sticker. I hope more people take manufacuturers to task on this point. I'm tired I seeing inflated FE claims in every car ad. GM is pushing 7 seat SUVs that get 32mpg. If that's not false advertising I don't know what is.
These numbers are nowhere near inflated in my opinion. Inflated would be Toyota using the Japanese government rating of 89 mpg or whatever it is. That's pretty out of reach for almost everyone.

As Tim said, if the cars we broken, Honda would have fixed them. Clearly these drivers just bought a toy, broke it, then complained about how it was someone else's fault it broke. We're not blaming the victim, we're asking people to take responsibility for themselves. Honda made a car nearly everyone was happy with. If a few weren't, perhaps they should consider they bought the wrong car or mistreated it, rather than getting all sue-happy.

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Old 12-17-2009, 06:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
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my 2004 civic hybrid consistently got 53mpg.
in a class-action lawsuit the product users are not the winners.
the attorney's are more interested in the lawsuit than the users... for good reason.

i think i was in the milli vanilli CD lawsuit... they offered me my money back if i still had the receipt...
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Old 12-17-2009, 06:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hi,

One of the reasons I plot 'mph vs MPG' is to determine if the problem is vehicle or something else. My first fill-up in the 2003 Prius was the first car data point in this chart:

The first data point was the airplane trip out to get the car and drive back. My first fill-up was the 39 MPG mark at 75 mph.

The first thing I do is ask the complainer to drive a circular route, a by-pass, that is relatively flat at a cruise control speed. Do one warm-up pass and then reset the trip meter. Once they realize the vehicle CAN achieve the predicted mileage, they start listening and to a greater or lessor extent, following good advice.

This is the detailed chart for the NHW11 Prius:


This is my ZVW30, 2010 Prius, chart:


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Old 12-17-2009, 07:30 PM   #14 (permalink)
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...unfortunately, not everyone is so inclined to document what's going on with their vehicles (good & bad).

...I'm from the Lord Byron / Jerry McGuire school: "...show me the NUMBERS (money)!" so appreciate the detail you provide, other's, however, will never understand *why* you'd want to do it in the first place.
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Old 12-17-2009, 10:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The complainants didn't actually win. If Honda settled it, nobody won or lost. The settlement means that there was never a judgement entered, and it was probably in Honda's best interests fiscally and legally to settle out of court than have to pay the legal team's bills.

Given those facts, this never would have held a coin in court. Whether or not Honda used those figures in advertising, they were given to Honda by the EPA, who would cause legal trouble for Honda by using any other set of numbers. The EPA requires that their numbers be used, as a matter of fair testing procedures and fair advertising between all companies.

If the drivers were not capable of operating their vehicles in such a way that they could get within 15% of the EPA registered values (which are a joke, I think), they should be re-tested for knowledge and application of proper operation of a motor vehicle.
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Last edited by Christ; 12-17-2009 at 11:40 PM.. Reason: There wasn't not a double negative there.
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Old 12-17-2009, 11:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think this story is somewhat related (and good for a chuckle):

My buddy Ivan (ForkenSwift co-conspirator) is an electrician. He recently had a service call from a woman who was concerned about the very high electricity bills at her home. She was convinced there was something wrong with her electrical service. ("It wasn't always like this!")

Ivan audited the house and gave her the bad news: "There's nothing wrong with your service, but I'm afraid your SIX refrigerators are a big part of the problem." (Several full size fridges, bar fridges, water cooler, wine cooler, deep freeze...)

"Well what am I supposed to do?"

Apparently she wasn't very happy with him when he suggested changing behaviour to save energy: Consolidating fridges, giving up a few of them, turning off lights, cutting back on other phantom loads. People want magic bullets.

So, assuming there was nothing wrong with the guy's Civic, we can take heart in the fact that at least most people who aren't willing to take responsibility for their energy use don't sue the companies whose products they use!
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Old 12-17-2009, 11:41 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The 2008 EPA estimates for my '07 Mustang V6 are 17MPG city and 25MPG highway. I've only had ONE fill-up in that range. What am I doing wrong?
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Just 'cuz you can't do it, don't mean it can't be done...
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The presence of traffic is the single most complicating factor of hypermiling. I know what I'm going to do, it's contending with whatever the hell all these other people are going to do that makes things hard.
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Old 12-17-2009, 11:42 PM   #18 (permalink)
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You're bending your right leg too far, and using the left one far too soon.
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:11 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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You're bending your right leg too far, and using the left one far too soon.
Huh?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguitarguy View Post
Just 'cuz you can't do it, don't mean it can't be done...
Quote:
Originally Posted by elhigh View Post
The presence of traffic is the single most complicating factor of hypermiling. I know what I'm going to do, it's contending with whatever the hell all these other people are going to do that makes things hard.
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:12 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Right leg bent = not on the gas

Left one too soon = shifting "too early".

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