01-12-2018, 03:21 AM
|
#771 (permalink)
|
Not Doug
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 12,236
Thanks: 7,254
Thanked 2,232 Times in 1,722 Posts
|
Neil, it is curious you said to follow the money. Yes, oil companies are more interested in their own profits than anything else. Is McDonald's any better?
Remember how the Paris Pinkie Swear costs $100 Trillion for just the first phase?
Oil companies are suspect because money is involved, but the people pushing the green agenda aren't?
|
|
|
Today
|
|
|
Other popular topics in this forum...
|
|
|
01-12-2018, 03:31 AM
|
#772 (permalink)
|
Human Environmentalist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,790
Thanks: 4,323
Thanked 4,474 Times in 3,439 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard
I like Rubin Report. He's a centrist.
I've made it 2/3rds through the Epstein interview. He seems like an earnest young man that has been exposed to Ayn Rand. Someone needs to inform him about R. Buckminster Fuller's Anticipatory Design Science, his ground-breaking articles in 1940 Fortune magazine, his World Game, 'metaphysically engendered materials', and so on and so forth. His mind would be receptive. And blown.
OTOH he insists 'fossil' fuels are life-based. He admits methane in Saturn's rings, but neglects carbonaceous asteroids and deep, hot abiotic processes.
His 'anti-nuclear argument' is specious. Energy is consumed and it's gone, but radiation has a long tail. Nobody got time for that.
He's right about fossil fuels being our 'free' energy period. Fracking isn't progress, it's declining return.
No love for Moon (tidal) power?
|
I appreciate Rubin's approach to seed the conversation and just let the guest speak uninterrupted. I also appreciate that he can be strongly opposed to an idea while still valuing the person who holds them. I'm of a similar personality, where no topics are out of bounds, and nothing said can make me hate.
As stated elsewhere, modern nuclear reactors need not have "waste" that lasts thousands of years. It's still a true statement to say that nuclear produces more MWh of energy per human life than any other source.
Fracking is progress since it allows us to extract more energy than what is invested. Sure, it's more costly, but all advances have diminishing returns.
I'm as excited to move away from fossil fuels as anyone (I saved weeks worth of allowance to buy an $8 photovoltaic cell from Radio Shack to experiment with), but until better alternatives get us there, we should not loath our own existence for having benefited from them.
In my view, Epstein's most profound comment is the insane view some hold that the less human ingenuity in a product, the better it is for humanity.
|
|
|
01-12-2018, 11:42 AM
|
#773 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SC Lowcountry
Posts: 1,796
Thanks: 226
Thanked 1,353 Times in 711 Posts
|
|
|
|
01-12-2018, 02:09 PM
|
#774 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,908
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,951 Times in 1,845 Posts
|
Here's a science reporter, with sources, that addresses this far more comprehensively than I can.
The fact that we humans are driving the climate to change at this time - is as certain as smoking tobacco causes cancer. Period.
|
|
|
01-12-2018, 02:15 PM
|
#775 (permalink)
|
EcoModding Apprentice
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 106
Thanks: 14
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
|
I can believe we're having an effect. I disagree with the magnitude some (many) propose however.
Also note the short period of time we have accurate global weather data makes it statistically meaningless, and will be imo for several hundreds years more before there's enough data from a long enough length of time to be meaningful in showing any trends, patterns or changes.
|
|
|
01-12-2018, 02:45 PM
|
#776 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,908
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,951 Times in 1,845 Posts
|
We have long term climate data - which is distinct from weather data.
I urge you all to watch the video series I just posted.
|
|
|
01-12-2018, 03:02 PM
|
#777 (permalink)
|
EcoModding Apprentice
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 106
Thanks: 14
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
|
What from, polar ice cores? That tells a portion leaves causes purely up to speculation and is fallible.
Also consider the green save the world from ourselves movement is worth billions. Anyway I'll watch the videos you posted later once in home, on a 10min break at work now.
|
|
|
01-12-2018, 05:09 PM
|
#778 (permalink)
|
Corporate imperialist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,267
Thanks: 273
Thanked 3,569 Times in 2,833 Posts
|
Oh yes the long term data that has been manipulated and falsified to show a warming get trend since the industrial revolution.
I would be willing to believe man was the driving force behind climate change if there wasn't so much money at stake and the beliver side hadn't been caught fabricating their own evidence multiple times.
That's why the man made global warming movement is in the process of failing right now.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
|
|
01-12-2018, 07:19 PM
|
#779 (permalink)
|
EcoModding Apprentice
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 106
Thanks: 14
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4
Oh yes the long term data that has been manipulated and falsified to show a warming get trend since the industrial revolution.
I would be willing to believe man was the driving force behind climate change if there wasn't so much money at stake and the beliver side hadn't been caught fabricating their own evidence multiple times.
That's why the man made global warming movement is in the process of failing right now.
|
Ding.
|
|
|
01-12-2018, 09:54 PM
|
#780 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SC Lowcountry
Posts: 1,796
Thanks: 226
Thanked 1,353 Times in 711 Posts
|
.
I watched the video. Actually several, by the youtuber that you posted detailing what the 97% say is causing climate change.
He is very good at explaining the alarmists point of view.
However, here's what a actual "scientist" has to say about climate change and the 97% in senate hearings.
A reasonable and levelheaded response with observable facts...
Then there's this...
"No longer up to scientific debate..."
Don't forget who's included in that 97% consenus...
"The science is settled"...
Science never settles...
>
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to redneck For This Useful Post:
|
|
|