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Old 12-02-2014, 09:52 PM   #511 (permalink)
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I once paid for a patent search, with an eye to buying a patent. The guy came up with half the ones I already knew about. After that, I decided to only deal with patent attorneys who would work for shares, or otherwise show faith in their work, so of course I have none. Have you wasted your money?

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Old 12-03-2014, 07:30 AM   #512 (permalink)
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I once paid for a patent search, with an eye to buying a patent. The guy came up with half the ones I already knew about. After that, I decided to only deal with patent attorneys who would work for shares, or otherwise show faith in their work, so of course I have none. Have you wasted your money?
Yes Bicycle Bob, in a way, I have wasted my money. Since I have yet to see but a small monetary return on the money and time spent designing and building the five Aerolids and five boat tails it has been mostly expenditures. Fortunately, the patents on both the Aerolid and boat tail cost me far less than they would have if I had hired a Patent Attorney. I was granted both these patents Pro Se ( on my own). Now I make money on the side writing and filing Provisional and Non-Provisional patent applications for people who want to file their own patents Pro Se.

Freebeard, you are very right in saying that the game in patents is circumvention. What is stated in the claims of a patent, the most important part, is what is argued in a court of Law in infringement cases. In my claims for both patents, I simply stated they are constructed of "rigid" materials. The word "rigid" pretty much covers Aluminum, sheet metal, fiberglass, thermoformable plastics, ect. If one chose to circumvent the Aerolid patent using metal instead of fiberglass, this one word "rigid" in the claims would negate them.

I often go to the Patent and Trademark Office web page, United States Patent and Trademark Office and look through the new patents that have been granted that week. I look under the class 296 which is land vehicles. It is interesting to see how many patents are granted to the automobile manufacturers both foreign and domestic. Many of the patents deal with improved aerodynamics.

I reckon the automobile manufacturers don't consider patents a waste of money.

Bondo

Last edited by bondo; 12-03-2014 at 07:33 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-03-2014, 07:43 AM   #513 (permalink)
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Can you defend a patent? Won't someone just build them anyway, ignoring your patent? The only way to earn money (for a "small" guy) from an invention is to build it and sell them.
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Old 12-03-2014, 07:58 AM   #514 (permalink)
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Can you defend a patent? Won't someone just build them anyway, ignoring your patent? The only way to earn money (for a "small" guy) from an invention is to build it and sell them.
No Neil I cannot defend myself in a court of Law. In such an instance, I would have to hire a member of the BAR for they have it all controlled.

So true your statement that the only way to make money is to build and sell ones invention. I think we all enter into this invention game with hope of making money. I could write now for pages and explain all I have done attempting to get the Aerolid to market. Early on I quickly learned I could not build these aerodynamic caps myself and make any profit. Money, capital has always been the missing ingredient.

I our smart phone app world today, all investment capital companies and individuals seem to want is to invest in internet based technology and cell phone apps which I have no problem with. Any durable good, like the Aerolid, they now shy away from due to the large up front cost of setting up manufacturing and the slow return on their investment.

If I was to win the lottery, you would start seeing my products on the market.

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Old 12-03-2014, 08:17 AM   #515 (permalink)
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Patents are a rich man's game, with just a few poor lottery winners to keep the suckers spending. On average, it takes $14 million in annual sales to defend one patent. Patent lawyers never work on speculation; they are leeches on the corporations as well, forcing them into a turf war that requires more lawyers. I like James Lancaster's advice: Get to market first with what you can, and publish everything you can't. You might be offered a fat salary to shut up.
I'm entirely sympathetic to the plight of the inventor and developer; I just don't think patents are the way to get paid. Information wants to get around and cross-fertilize, so I'd like to see automatic tax credits for people whose ideas get copied. Until then, it's "keep the day job" for most of us. The one thing a patent might have done for me is to encourage people to copy my successful integration of chassis and suspension into a few composite moldings.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:57 AM   #516 (permalink)
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Re: Post #513
"Can you defend a patent? Won't someone just build them anyway, ignoring your patent?"

The classic case is Selden v. Ford. Selden patented the spark-ignition engine in the US. Henry Ford built Model Ts and ignored Selden's patent. Ford beat Selden in court.


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Old 12-03-2014, 10:01 AM   #517 (permalink)
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Bondo:

Are you up for some outside-of-the-box thinking?

Going beyond an aero-lid all the way to a aero-bed.

I have an idea and a couple thou for a one-off.
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Old 12-03-2014, 01:29 PM   #518 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Can you defend a patent? Won't someone just build them anyway, ignoring your patent? The only way to earn money (for a "small" guy) from an invention is to build it and sell them.
I have a few patents, and have had many discussions with patent attorneys. If somebody wants to infringe your patent, and you want to take him to court, budget $1,000,000. Threatening letters from your attorney are much cheaper, but carry negligible legal weight.

The real value from a patent is when talking to investors. Doug Pelmear (remember him?) got a large sum of money on the basis of a worthless patent application. I refer to his patent as "worthless" on the technical ground that it never has worked and never will work. Doug, however, got money out of it from technically unsophisticated financial and political types.

There's a lesson in there somewhere.
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Old 12-03-2014, 02:50 PM   #519 (permalink)
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Hey Big Dave, pm sent your way.

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Old 12-03-2014, 02:56 PM   #520 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMichler View Post
I have a few patents, and have had many discussions with patent attorneys. If somebody wants to infringe your patent, and you want to take him to court, budget $1,000,000. Threatening letters from your attorney are much cheaper, but carry negligible legal weight.

The real value from a patent is when talking to investors. Doug Pelmear (remember him?) got a large sum of money on the basis of a worthless patent application. I refer to his patent as "worthless" on the technical ground that it never has worked and never will work. Doug, however, got money out of it from technically unsophisticated financial and political types.

There's a lesson in there somewhere.
You've been there and done that JRMichler. A valid issued patent gives you at least some leverage when talking to established manufacturing companies and/or investors.

If you watch Shark Tank many times they will ask the person seeking the Shark's money if they have a patent. Also, I've always been impressed by the fine job you did on your lid.

Bondo

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