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Old 10-25-2017, 09:19 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
What I'm asking is whether there is anything in the OEM part supply chain that uses the DAB converter instead of IGBTs.
Freebeard, those two things are apples and oranges. "Dual active bridge" is a topology for connecting multiple switching devices - think of it as a road map for putting the pieces together. "IGBT" stands for insulated gate bipolar transistor. It's a specific type of one of those pieces - the switching device.

So you could use IGBTs to create a DAB converter. Or you could use another type of device - say a MOSFET or even a bipolar junction transistor (BJT). At the company I used to work for, we did a pretty detailed paper design for a solid state transformer that used IGBTs. We built some of the subassemblies and tested them, but ran out of funding before we put it all together.

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Old 11-01-2017, 08:46 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Hey, has anybody done a teardown on the Ford Fusion Hybrid inverter? I think it may be a decent match for this motor. I'm not set up (yet) to really test anything, but if nobody has opened one up, I'm willing to try.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:01 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ChazFisher View Post
At the company I used to work for, we did a pretty detailed paper design for a solid state transformer that used IGBTs. We built some of the subassemblies and tested them, but ran out of funding before we put it all together.
The simplified schematics for solid state transformers that I have seen all appear to have hi frequency transformers that do the actual voltage conversion. They are just a lot smaller and more efficient since they are designed for 500 - 1000 Hz not 60 Hz. It's more efficient, but I would not really describe them as 'solid state'.

I read a couple of papers (*REALLY* tough to digest) on using inductors instead of transformers, which gets rid of the heating in the transformer but causes it's own set of issues. But certainly more of a 'solid state' solution.

Which design style were you involved in? Did a company or a person purchase the IP or did that die with the company?

One of my pet peeves - wasting all the work that went into a design by having it collect dust on a shelf instead of selling the design or open sourcing it
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:05 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Hey, has anybody done a teardown on the Ford Fusion Hybrid inverter? I think it may be a decent match for this motor. I'm not set up (yet) to really test anything, but if nobody has opened one up, I'm willing to try.
I have not read any posts or watched any videos that dealt with the Fusion drivetrain .. but I was not searching for them.

Youtube does a pretty decent job of finding new teardown videos for me, given who I'm subscribed to and what I normally watch. So I'm going to guess that if someone has torn one down, they have not spent much time posting about it.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:57 AM   #105 (permalink)
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The simplified schematics for solid state transformers that I have seen all appear to have hi frequency transformers that do the actual voltage conversion. They are just a lot smaller and more efficient since they are designed for 500 - 1000 Hz not 60 Hz. It's more efficient, but I would not really describe them as 'solid state'.

I read a couple of papers (*REALLY* tough to digest) on using inductors instead of transformers, which gets rid of the heating in the transformer but causes it's own set of issues. But certainly more of a 'solid state' solution.

Which design style were you involved in? Did a company or a person purchase the IP or did that die with the company?

One of my pet peeves - wasting all the work that went into a design by having it collect dust on a shelf instead of selling the design or open sourcing it
This design was the high frequency transformer type. We had done a design for a very large motor drive, using 3-level neutral point clamp phase legs built with 3300V/1200A IGBTs. The idea was to adapt those to the SST. We built and tested several transformers, using microcrystaline cores, trying to push the frequency up towards 5 kHz. They worked pretty well, but we ran out of money before actually building enough phase legs to assemble the entire system.

This was at a big defense contractor, and we were funded by the gov't for the work. That means we didn't own the IP, the gov't did. So you'll have to go find someone in the bureaucracy willing to release the IP. I don't think much of it, either, but that's the way it is.
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Old 11-03-2017, 12:12 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Found one in the WeberAuto feed on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/UddAfkFfXuU

They're usually pretty good, as far as they go, but the instructor doesn't seem to understand the subtleties of motor control. Anyway, this is the second gen (2013- up) inverter, and by this time it seems Ford had figured out the two-motor scheme most everybody else is using. I haven't seen anything about the first gen (2010-2012) version, which I think was a simpler, one-motor design. I'll keep looking.....
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Old 11-03-2017, 02:52 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ChazFisher View Post
This design was the high frequency transformer type. We had done a design for a very large motor drive, using 3-level neutral point clamp phase legs built with 3300V/1200A IGBTs. The idea was to adapt those to the SST. We built and tested several transformers, using microcrystaline cores, trying to push the frequency up towards 5 kHz. They worked pretty well, but we ran out of money before actually building enough phase legs to assemble the entire system
1200A switching at 5000 Hz generates a lot of heat. Was the cooling system impressive?

I'm not familiar with high end transformers, but microcrystaline does not sound familiar. Expensive of course, but does it shed heat well?
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Old 11-03-2017, 04:31 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Watched that Weber video. It's nothing like the electronics that I have.

Ehhhhh, mine is from a Ford Cmax, 7.6 Kwh battery.

Last edited by HaroldinCR; 11-03-2017 at 04:47 PM..
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Old 11-03-2017, 09:41 PM   #109 (permalink)
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1200A switching at 5000 Hz generates a lot of heat. Was the cooling system impressive?

I'm not familiar with high end transformers, but microcrystaline does not sound familiar. Expensive of course, but does it shed heat well?
Oh, yeah, custom liquid cooled heat sinks. We were only trying to push 800 amps or so, but still lots of heat. And the microcrystalline is really good at not generating heat to begin with. Much lower loss at high frequency than silicone steel.

That teardown was for the 2013-2016 Fusion hybrid. Very similar to the Chevy Volt. The more I look at pictures on eBay of parts that purportedly are first gen inverters, the more I think it's buried in the transmission.
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Old 01-29-2018, 01:10 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Any joy in being able to use this as an altermotor? To upgrade a car to hybrid?

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