debunking anti-BEV propaganda

[redpoint5]

Curiosity got the better of me, so I did a quick google on how much CO2 is emitted per kWh of battery production.

studies indicate that battery production is associated with
56 to 494 kilograms of carbon dioxide per kilowatt-hour of battery capacity

https://theicct.org/sites/default/fi...9022018_vF.pdf

Taking the median (219 kilograms) of this range of estimates, and assuming an EV has an 80 kWh battery, that would be 17,520 kilograms of CO2.

Burning a gallon of gasoline emits about 8.88 kg.

Building the 80 kWh battery is equivalent to burning 1,972 gallons of gasoline. In a 30 MPG car, that would get you 60,000 miles.

Above, I had recalled seeing a 60k mile break-even somewhere, and this seems to agree with the figures above. I honestly used the first link I came across for CO2 emissions in battery manufacturing, and assumed 80 kWh as an average battery size given some trucks are coming with 200 kWh, but some cars have as small as 40.

This isn't the full picture though, because EVs are not zero emission. Fossil fuels account for 60% of US electricity generation.



Perhaps the actual CO2 emissions to manufacture batteries are on the lower end of the range rather than the median I used. Still, combined with the fact that most electricity is generated from burning fossil fuels, we're still probably looking at about 60,000 miles as a break-even. Not likely to travel that many miles in 1.5-2 years, especially since the average annual miles EVs are driven is 7,000 (compare that with 10-12k for ICE).

None of this is an argument against EVs though, because after the break-even, the EV emits less CO2 for the remainder of the life of the vehicle.

Originally Posted by freebeard

Truth is dependent on your starting assumptions.

Truth is the set of things that manifest. Fiction is the set of things that do not.

Then there's the strange things like metaphorical truth, or directional truth. They still attempt to head in the direction of things that have or will manifest.

Observation of truth utilizes an infinite spectrum of resolution.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Most of my opposition to EVs is for the anti-ICE agenda which took over EVs as a flag to keep raising. Sure range-anxiety and the lack of a power grid reliable enough to sustain a large all-electric fleet, but it doesn't bother me to the same extent the anti-ICE agenda does. I'm OK with people who can actually be better served by an EV, as long as they don't try to claim anybody else SHOULD do the same.

[aerohead]

Daniel Yergen and another energy 'expert' were on the University of Texas at Austin's NPR program, Energy Switch a few days ago.
They were reluctant to 'predict' beyond a decade or so, but did say that, by 2040, USA wind production would increase by 3X. Grid-scale solar by 4X. Along with widespread efficiency increases across all phases of energy use.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Infinitum Electric, of Round Rock,Texas recently showed their new axial-flux, 'Aircore' electric motor at the Consumer Electronics Show.
* 66% less copper
* 50% weight reduction
* 50% size reduction
* 50% less shipping carbon footprint
* 10% higher efficiency
* 30% lower emissions
* switchable, variable-phase ( 3-phase-to-18-phase) operation
* 76-US Patent applications
* 33-US Patents issued so far
* By reducing non-traction electric motor loads by 10%, along with 10% for the traction motor, overall BEV efficiency is increased by over 10%.
* The motors are completely rebuildable, serviceable.
* These efficiency improvements would constitute 'negawatts' added to USA generating capacity, expanding capacity at zero expense to providers, via load reduction. Just like aerodynamic drag reduction or lower rolling resistance in cars, or higher R-Factor in homes and businesses.

[Piotrsko]

I want to see them actually do 18 phase with just 3 coil sets.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Even if renewable/sustainable electric power generation improves, it would be pointless to forget how many other equipments rely on electric power. BEVs in the end are just the tip of an iceberg.

[redpoint5]

Moving to 100% electric also means when the electricity is out, you're 100% out.

When we lost power for a week, the house was comfortable because the NG fireplaces still operated. We cooked on the NG stoves (neighbor friends didn't think to use a match to light it). Hot showers at night from an NG water heater.

If I had planned ahead, I'd have electricity from a 3-fuel carburetor genset tapped into the NG line. As it was, we just used gasoline for electricity.

Diversification adds resiliency.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

If I had planned ahead, I'd have electricity from a 3-fuel carburetor genset tapped into the NG line. As it was, we just used gasoline for electricity.

Diversification ads resiliency.

See? Not to mention how ICEs can still be useful to the stabilization of the carbon and nitrogen cycles in the atmosphere, once we also factor biofuels among the diversified options.

[aerohead]

I lived ten years off the grid, and whether or not I had electricity was up to my design specification.
'Needs' are small relative to 'wants.'
Now that I'm on the grid, I've never experienced a power outage lasting more than a few hours, even during the killer winter storm two years ago.
I never suffered.
I've made it through 30-degrees F below zero in a tent, with nothing but biological heat. Anyone who hasn't back-packed , in the presence of predators has short-changed themselves for life.
If it's a real priority for people to navigate a power outage without suffering, they'll be pro-active.
If they suffer, by default, they asked for it, and I have zero sympathy.

[redpoint5]

People are habitual creatures, not rational.

When we lost power for 2 weeks during the ice storm, my grandmother refused to let us run a space heater in her room from a genset. She kept referring to the utilities estimate that power would be restored by 5pm on Sunday (in just a few hours). Look out the window. There's 2 miles of down power lines. You don't fix 2 miles of down power lines out in the boonies in a few hours when cities have priority.

She wouldn't put on extra warm clothes. Stuck to her routine. Believed power was coming on any moment for 2 weeks. The cold weakened her and she fell, ending her ability to live at home, and necessitating the move to a care home. She lost ability to walk several weeks later.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

I want to see them actually do 18 phase with just 3 coil sets.

Their stator is comprised of printed circuit boards, with copper plating, no windings. There's something about this stator architecture which facilitates the variability of phases attainable.
This phasing allows the motor to behave as a 'virtual transmission,' similar to the 'Chorus Meshcon motor' which is in the 'Wheel Tug,' aircraft nose gear 'hub-motor' invention, also shown at the CES.