debunking anti-BEV propaganda

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by aerohead

The 'carbon footprint' of manufacturing the statistical-average pack is equal to that of combusting 74-gallons of gas.
74 X 19.7-pounds/gallon = 1,457.8-pounds of carbon dioxide.

I didn't see that mentioned anywhere in the paper, searching the terms '74' and also searching each instance of 'gallon'.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Truth-seeking sets people as outcasts because they don't neatly align with any particular group.

Truth is dependent on your starting assumptions.

A picture of a train of coal gondolas labeled 'electric car fuel' is 'true', but not in all places, e.g., the PNW.

The cost of elecricity and therefore the deficit period is twice as much right across the river from here.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I didn't see that mentioned anywhere in the paper, searching the terms '74' and also searching each instance of 'gallon'.

Probably because I mis-quoted Jonny Lieberman.
He'd written: ' This is a comprehensive study you should read for yourself.' It would have been easier on everyone If I'd left it to the individual to inform themselves, or not.
I should have written: ' ...the energy required to produce an average EV's battery is equivalent to about 74 gallons of gas.'
Then, 74 X 111,836 Btu = 8,275,864-Btu.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The breakevens are from:
'E.V.s Start With a Bigger Carbon Footprint. But That Doesn't Last,' The New York Times.

[oil pan 4]

To me an EV is legal tax evasion.
I don't care at all about the CO2 centric religious attachments.
The way I see it any amount of gasoline "saved by electric cars" just gets sold over seas or turned into something else at the refinery. With oil at $80 a barrel EVs ain't keeping a drop of oil in the ground, or preventing any exploration or field stimulation.

[redpoint5]

People mistakenly think EVs are a major "solution" to reducing CO2 emissions. Until energy can be produced more cheaply than fossil fuels, there is no solution. The world will consume the cheapest energy.

The only solution to reduce CO2 globally is to find a cheaper alternative.

That's not to say I oppose EVs. As an appreciator of efficiency, EVs greatly appeal to me. I encourage everyone who could be well served by an EV to get one. To date, I've convinced zero people. Maybe my friend was slightly influenced by me, but he was already thinking in that direction to begin with.

[Cd]

Great conversation on both sides folks.
I recently posted a "hypothetical churchlady with an EV" question that deals with my own personal situation.
( I have driving anxiety / agoraphobia and my car never gets driven )
My 30 year old Honda Civic is having an 'electrical gremlin' show up again, and I must admit looking at used Nissan Leafs after seeing a video that showed how that some Tesla cars still have most of their battery left after 10+ years.
( And thinking the same might be true of Leaves )
But I'm also looking at end of life recycling of the batteries( Thinking of how Elon says that word : bat-trees LOL )
I hate that in today's world, one must do so much research to see what is actual truth.

One of you pointed out in the past that it wold be far more eco friendly to drive an old gas junker than to buy an new EV.
I would of coarse be buying a USED EV, so that would lessen that argument.
However, in my situation, I never drive my ICE junker anyways.
If I bought a used Leaf, I would have to replace that battery in just a few years ( scorching hot Texas sun while sitting in my apartment driveway, and very little use / charge of the battery. )
In my case, I think it would be far more eco friendly to just stick with my junker.

[redpoint5]

It doesn't seem like your choice of a used vehicle matters much to the environment, because it doesn't produce a market signal to build more of those.

From a used car perspective, I'd just get the thing that best suits your needs at the price you're willing to pay.

To reduce public interaction, I would think an EV with lower maintenance demands would be the better choice. No oil changes, no fill ups at the petrol station.

[Hersbird]

To me it looks like this study is more of a "what if" or "what may unfold" rather than what is. Studies that estimate battery production based one what is currently the supply, mainly from Russian and Chinese mines and Chinese production, show at least 150 kg CO2e/kWh and up to 500 kg CO2e/kWh.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by Cd

I recently posted a "hypothetical churchlady with an EV" question that deals with my own personal situation.

Henceforth we shall call you Aunt Bertha.

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

To me an EV is legal tax evasion.
I don't care at all about the CO2 centric religious attachments.

Some people want to be both quick and fast, and have no time for shifting up and down.

[Piotrsko]

If you pick the method of battery assembly carefully enough, some of these packs disassemble rather easy making cell replacement almost a DIY home process. Prius and chevy come to mind. Power electronics replacement becomes the next issue, but the aftermarket bunch seem to be gaining on that with newer more efficient controllers and chargers. All the other stuff appears to be arriving in the aftermarket. So other than one-off stuff specific to the vehicle like door skins, owning an older common model appears to be typical used car shade tree garage mechanic stuff with a big instant fatality option.