Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-11-2008, 02:12 PM   #21 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,813
Thanks: 23,881
Thanked 7,185 Times in 4,625 Posts
hinges

Please,don't anyone attempt to do the skirt w/o hinges.The one I did for the T-100,even though blistered out to allow reduced turning radius,rubs at the slightest provocation and is a constant source of stress and displeasure! ------------------------- I'm going to do a double-articulated linkage for mounting the skirt,as it will move like a parallelogram,away and up simultaneously,the skirt always parallel to the side of the car.------------------------------ No benefit aerodynamically,but it will let me play with this mechanism,which I intend to also use for the canopy on the hyper-mini.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-11-2008, 06:31 PM   #22 (permalink)
Cd
Ultimate Fail
 
Cd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin,Texas
Posts: 3,585
Thanks: 2,872
Thanked 1,120 Times in 679 Posts
Bassjoos : Just curious : what does it sound like when they make contact ?

Metro : Dont't mean to hijack. Care to comment on the rubbing issue and how you will handle it ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2008, 06:58 PM   #23 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
basjoos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 1,088

Aerocivic - '92 Honda Civic CX
Last 3: 70.54 mpg (US)

AerocivicLB - '92 Honda Civic CX
Team Honda
90 day: 55.14 mpg (US)

Camryglide - '20 Toyota Camry hybrid LE
90 day: 62.77 mpg (US)
Thanks: 16
Thanked 676 Times in 302 Posts
They sound very similar to the noise produced by a TIE fighter in Star Wars. The aluminum sheet covering picks up and transmits the noise produced by the rollers. The earlier coroplast covered version was a bit quieter.
__________________
aerocivic.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2008, 09:26 PM   #24 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,513

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 60.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,058
Thanked 6,957 Times in 3,602 Posts
Quote:
Metro : Dont't mean to hijack. Care to comment on the rubbing issue and how you will handle it ?
I'm thinking of attaching some teflon sheet or other slippery plastic where the tire will contact things. It'll be mounted to the metal frame behind the skirt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by basjoos View Post
They only make contact during a sharp turn, like turning into a driveway.
I think mine will be more sensitive than that. Not enough to contact in a lane change or gentle bend in the road (less than 1/4 turn of the wheel), but I'm going to try to get them fairly close to the tire to minimize frontal area and try to keep attached flow on the aft side of the skirt.

---

I worked on things a bit today - flattened a length of copper pipe to form the bracket that I'll mount the hinges on. I jacked up the a rear corner of the car to compress the front suspension on the opposite corner to double-check clearance to where I was going to run the bracket. Decided to position it up higher than I showed here:



I've got it positioned at the halfway point between the bracket drawn above and the top of the wheel arch.

I also picked up some steel bar stock (fairly light) to make the frame. I'll work on that tomorrow and take some pics.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2008, 11:46 PM   #25 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 190

GreenMile - '00 Mazda Protege ES
90 day: 34.45 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
What about just filling in the gap between the wheel and the wheel well, make it solid, and leave the minimum clearance for turning. Then put some sort of rubber stripping around the rest that can basically seal it when the wheel is straight but will flex enough for the wheel to pass through it.

At first you might think it wont be nearly as effective because it doesnt cover the spinning side walls of the tire, but I bet most of the turbulence created from the spinning tire is actually from the tread part of the tire that is perpendicular to air flow.

This coupled with some hub covers should be very effective, and possibly even more then a full cover because it wont increase frontal area and might have better laminar air flow.

Could do another tuft test with a cardboard cutout to see
__________________
http://benw385.vox.com/
'Blog' on the open source electric motorcycle project.

Please come visit and comment!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008, 10:12 PM   #26 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,513

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 60.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,058
Thanked 6,957 Times in 3,602 Posts
It's not a bad idea.

Couple of issues: Don't forget the cutout has to accomodate the movement of the wheel with suspension travel too. So it can't just be a simple circle.

Also, the wheel cover/tire on my car isn't flush with the surrounding bodywork. It's recessed at the top & sticks out relative to the bodywork below the center of the wheel. Makes it more complicated to design a gap filler with smooth lines.

Ever see the "bristles" on transport trucks above the trailer wheels to keep spray down? Maybe that could work as the "gasket" bit that has to permit the tire to pass through when turning.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008, 10:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Omaha Nebraska area
Posts: 271

Civic - '98 Honda Civic DX
90 day: 41.44 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
very interesting. I like the hinge bracket.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008, 10:19 PM   #28 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,513

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 60.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,058
Thanked 6,957 Times in 3,602 Posts
hinges & frame roughed in

Much more refining yet to do, but I got the hinges mounted on the flat copper pipe that uses existing screws in the wheel well lip. Need to drill one more screw hole in the forward part, but I can do that in the plastic bumper, so no rust issues there.

Need to trim the copper, and I may replace it with stainless if I don't think it's sturdy enough with the full weight of the completed frame & skirt:



Below: side view. The frame is just tacked together at this point. Going to add some triangulation for strength.



Below: view from above... There's about a 1 inch gap between the tire/hub cap and the frame. Accomodates 1/4 turn of the steering wheel before contact.



Front view:

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	frame-looking-up.jpg
Views:	1266
Size:	76.7 KB
ID:	1924   Click image for larger version

Name:	frame-side.jpg
Views:	1969
Size:	77.6 KB
ID:	1925   Click image for larger version

Name:	frame-from-above.jpg
Views:	1251
Size:	54.0 KB
ID:	1926   Click image for larger version

Name:	frame-from-front.jpg
Views:	1254
Size:	46.6 KB
ID:	1927  
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008, 11:33 PM   #29 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
gascort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 548

Gascort RIP - '93 Ford Escort Wagon
90 day: 43.01 mpg (US)

WifesCruze - '11 Chevrolet Cruze LT
90 day: 31.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 14
Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts
Aside from the hinge being slightly front-mounted (you are still doing that, right?), you could add something on the front bumper right in front of the skirt to divert air around it to make sure air doesn't get under there and lift the skirt away from the car.
As for the slippery material backing or conveyor roller, what about using a layer of coroplast? I'm assuming you have lots of extra laying around like some of us do..
__________________
Gasoline, Wind, Solar, Gravity Hybrid-to-be! http://www.scientificmethodfueleconomy.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008, 11:40 PM   #30 (permalink)
Deadly Efficient
 
Tango Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Goshen, Indiana
Posts: 1,234

Olivia - '03 Pontiac Vibe base
90 day: 36.01 mpg (US)

R2-D2 - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 58.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 134
Thanked 176 Times in 91 Posts
Very nice, MetroMPG. You mentioned using teflon instead of rollers. I've heard of the rock crawler guys making skid plates with the slick plastic stuff they make cutting boards out of. Maybe that'd work for ya. It'd be cheap and easy to cut/drill.

__________________
-Terry
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DIY: plastic rear wheel skirts (Geo Metro) MetroMPG DIY / How-to 57 06-12-2014 10:16 AM
Video: tuft testing front wheel skirts (Geo Metro) MetroMPG Aerodynamics 54 10-02-2012 10:42 AM
DIY Rubber Front Wheel Skirts newtonsfirstlaw DIY / How-to 32 05-19-2011 08:45 AM
Video: tuft testing rear wheel skirts - Geo Metro MetroMPG Aerodynamics 6 07-11-2008 09:26 AM
Geo Metro rear wheel skirts - 2 examples MetroMPG Aerodynamics 10 02-27-2008 11:09 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com