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Old 01-08-2010, 06:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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diamond plate bellypan diffuser?

im picking out a metal to use for my belly pan ,and i was wondering since some manufactures use dimpling for their belly pans would the patern on diamond plate help or hurt?

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Old 01-08-2010, 06:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't think it would do anything. If it does, you probably won't notice it. The added weight isn't good either.
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Provided the flow is attached to start with, past a certain length it should not matter since the pattern will eventually reside within the boundary layer as the flow does not stay attached forever on a plane.

I say don't worry about it.
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Try aluminum for easier fabrication & minimized corrosion concerns. The diamond plate is heavier & the ridges could be too much of a vortex generator, but try the dimpled ones. It may be the ones you're looking for.

Order Aluminum 3003 Sheet in Small Quantities at OnlineMetals.com
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadisonMPG View Post
I don't think it would do anything. If it does, you probably won't notice it. The added weight isn't good either.
I definitely agree with the added weight.

At 55 mph, almost 40% of the cars drag is due to rolling resistance, and adding more weight in the form of metal plate has got to hurt.

Jim.
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Big no on the plate way tooo heavy, no mattere how thin you go.

Having done a full under belly pan on a large car, coroplast is really yhr best and simplest to use.
especially something as light as the ECHO.
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Old 01-09-2010, 02:05 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrews View Post
Big no on the plate way tooo heavy, no mattere how thin you go.

Having done a full under belly pan on a large car, coroplast is really yhr best and simplest to use.
especially something as light as the ECHO.
I agree. My 'pan is aluminum and I was surprised at how heavy it turned out ( several pounds versus a pound or two for Coroplast )
If you use thinner aluminum, you will also get rattling anytime you are stopped and the car is at idle.)
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Old 01-09-2010, 02:11 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cd View Post
I agree. My 'pan is aluminum and I was surprised at how heavy it turned out ( several pounds versus a pound or two for Coroplast )
If you use thinner aluminum, you will also get rattling anytime you are stopped and the car is at idle.)
Unless you dimple or crimp the sheet. That's why the body floor of your car has "designs" in it. It adds to the rigidity of the metal against reverberation due to vibration, and makes it more structurally stiff, as well.

If you just add a couple bead-rolls into the sheet metal, the vibration stops.
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Something that might be useful when figuring out what weight you would be adding to the car, if using metal plate/sheeting:

Shapes Weight and Inertia Calculator

A suggestion for you too, if you're looking for durability, or build quality above coroplast and tape:

Consider go hybrid: use metal to build up mounting points, as a 'skeleton', then mount coroplast (or some other plastic sheeting) from there.




Myself, I've only worked on the front part of my car, and I've waiting for spring to arrive, to consider what to do for the rest.

So far, I've worked with:
  • coroplast, which was rudely removed by a roadkill racoon I couldn't avoid on the highway.
  • perf-steel, to cover over the same engine bay, and allow me to measure out, and eventually draw up CAD drawings so I can make a proper, metal fairing there.

Regarding that metal pan:

This past summer, I'd made a template for an lower engine cover for my Jetta, since the oil pan on the TDI models WAY TOO LOW, and is cast, and prone to causing catastrophic engine damage when you leak all 5L of oil on the road.

This pan was made out of perf-steel plate, 1/8" thick - not strong enough to prevent damage to the car, but it WAS easy to form. Using, say, 4" strips of this off of a sheet, you can wire tie, or drill to bolt this onto your car at the appropriate points, then mount something lighter (i.e. coroplast, old shower surround panels, etc.)

You could also mount other perf-steel panels securely in spots where heat and plastics don't mix, say, nearby your exhaust.




Using plate over the whole underside of the car WILL add a fair bit of weight, however. Myself, I'm only going to do this for the engine bay, since it -will- provide me protection for my engine, weight penalty be damned. A new engine is thousands of dollars, and the better streamlining will offset the added heft.

Aluminum plate (not accounting for the slight extra weight the diamond tread would add), at 1/8" thick is around 1.76 lbs per square foot, according to that calculator link.

Steel plate the same thickness: 5.1lbs/sq-foot

Perf-steel is around half holes, often more, so that's adding around 2.6 lbs/sq-foot (or less)

Your Echo, if that's the car that's going to get 'plated', is roughly 65" x 163". For a ballpark figure, we'll not count out the areas you'll not plate, like the wheel wells, or that the underside isn't a true box shape. This might come in a bit heavier, however, you'll have overlaps, and mounting hardware, brackets, etc., which probably balance it pretty close.

65" x 163" = 10595 square inches

10595/144 = 73.58 square feet

That means, given my 3 example metals:

Full Aluminum 1/8" plate pan: 129.5 lbs.
Steel 1/8" plate pan: 375.25 lbs.
Perf-steel 1/8" plate pan: 191.3 lbs.




Doing a hybrid, like I mentioned, a "skeleton" to mount coroplast or some other plastic, would come in at a much, much lower weight, for any of these choices.

I won't speculate too much on weight, but it would stand to reason that the full aluminum pan's weight wouldn't impact fuel economy as much as the aerodynamic gains would help.

I'd be more apt to say, a full steel plate pan might be closer to a wash, since it'd be like adding 2 more people in your car (or 3 very skinny ones, or 4-5 supermodels ).




Oh, and veering back on your original question about the diamond plating. If you're concerned about the checker pattern causing airflow disruption: face it smooth side down to the ground, patterned side up to the car, and any surface drag quibbles would be muted.
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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chrstpyr thanks for all those numbers you crunched, on the pattern of the diamond plate i was thinking it would help the aero under the car, some car companys dimple the pans on purpose it helps somehow,but i think you guys have convinced me i need to go lighter anyway, i think i will go with aluminum flat stock and some form of plastic, i buy alot of (hyzod) "lexan" from a plastic company in jacksonville fl Farco plastics, i will drop by there on monday and see what they have thats "coroplast like" maybe they have something thats stronger and not too heavy, im driving to raliegh NC in a week or so, a 1000 mile round trip so i want my pan in before i go. by the way how air tight against the bottom of the car does this need to be, i dont think i can seal it 100% because of the suspention at the wheel wells.

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