Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > DIY / How-to
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-23-2010, 09:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
Left Lane Ecodriver
 
RobertSmalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,258

Prius C - '12 Toyota Prius C
Thanks: 79
Thanked 284 Times in 197 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nayeliesuncle View Post
I would use the system at EOC, with the fans at full blast.
The water pump isn't turning during EOC.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 08-23-2010, 10:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
comptiger5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 544

RaceJeep - '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee (ZJ) 5.9 Limited
90 day: 13.62 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1
Thanked 26 Times in 23 Posts
It can be, if you convert to an electric water pump (only available for some engines).
__________________
Call me crazy, but I actually try for mpg with this Jeep:



Typical driving: Back in Rochester for school, driving is 60 - 70% city
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2010, 11:59 AM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 269

The Wife's Hot Rod - '09 Pontiac G8 GT
Last 3: 23.22 mpg (US)

Big Outback - '13 Subaru Outback 2.5i

Little Outback - '02 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Somebody sells a system similar to this for use on home a/c units. I believe the someone here tried it. It was reported that the a/c unit ran less than without it. The issue was there is mineral build up as the water evaporates. It used tap water (or whatever you push through a hose at it). This mineral build up would decrease heat transfer out of the radiator. I don't know if collected rain or distilled water would prevent this.

I wouldn't keep the water under the hood, I would keep it away from engine heat so there is a bigger delta T.

I would also consider a nozzle that makes more of a cone pattern that a washer nozzle does. This would more evenly cover the radiator.

Good luck.
Don
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 12:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You would'nt be able to carry enough water to make much differance.

Rick
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 05:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,666

GasDwarf - '13 Volkswagen up! EcoFuel CNG
Thanks: 176
Thanked 641 Times in 508 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyRick View Post
You would'nt be able to carry enough water to make much differance.
You don't need that much water for evaporation cooling.

Actually, a common error at work is to use far too much water.
__________________
GasDwarf's fuel consumption :
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 08:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
...beats walking...
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,191
Thanks: 179
Thanked 1,521 Times in 1,122 Posts
...Swamp Cooler Theory 101:

eqn 1: E(s) = ( DBD / WBD ) = (T1 - T2) / (T1 - T3)

...where:
E(s) = Saturation Efficiency, actual change divided by maximum possible change.
DBD = Dry-Bulb Depression, air temperature change from HOT to COOL, actual.
WBD = Wet-Bulb Depression, air temperature change, HOT to COOL, maximum possible.
T1 = Outside (or inlet) HOT air temperature.
T2 = Inside (or discharge) COOL air temperature.
T3 = Wetbulb temperature, maximum adiabatic air cooling possible.

...for example, if T1 = 105F and T2 = 73.9F and T3 = 66.1F, then the saturation efficiency E(s) would be 0.80, or 80%:

E(s) = (105.0-73.9)/(105.0-66.1) = 0.80 x 100% = 80%

...unfortunately, that E(s) value is for Aspen Excelsior, not a FRAM™ paper automotive air filter, which probably has an E(s)-value of ~ 0.5 or less...but "mister spray" can approach 0.95.

...never the less, let's backsolve the above equation to see how "cool" the air going into the engine (ie: T2) would be with E(s) = 0.5:

eqn 2: T2 = T1 - E(s)*(T1 - T3) = 105.0 - 0.5*(105.0 - 66.1) = (105.0 - 19.4) = 85.6F ...a (theoretical) temperature reduction of 19.4F.

...if you know the relative humidity (RH%) values of T1, T2 and T3, Eqn 1 becomes:

eqn 3: E(s) = SQRT[ (rh2 - rh1)/(rh3 - rh1) ]

...where:
rh1 = relative humidity at T1 of the inlet (outside) air.
rh2 = relative humidity at T2 of the discharge (after the wet filter) air.
rh3 = relative humidity at T3; theoretically 100%, but practically less than 80%.

...so, because of the HUGE volume of air drawn by the engine through the air filter, a large amount of water is required to raise rh2. For instance, in the first example above, the outside air would be: T1 = 105F @ rh1 = 12% and the inside air (going into engine) would be: T2 = 73.9F @ rh2 = 68%.

...unfortunately, THAT's gonna take a LOT of water, especially if you're driving at freeway speeds (higher RPMs) for any appreciable time...literally, gallons-per-hour!

...and, here's the equation for calculating "how many" gallons-per-hour (GPH) of water you'd need:

eqn 4: GPH = [CFM*WBD*E(s)] / 8700

...where, 8700 is a conversion factor based upon (a) 8.34 lb. water-per-gallon and (b) 1043 BTU-per-pound of water. CFM is a function of engine displacement (CID), volumetric efficiency (~ 80%) and RPM:

eqn 5: CFM = (CID*RPM*0.8) / 3456

Last edited by gone-ot; 06-07-2013 at 11:00 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2011, 02:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: duluth mn
Posts: 117
Thanks: 20
Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts
"...Swamp Cooler Theory 101:..."

"...unfortunately, THAT's gonna take a LOT of water, especially if you're driving at freeway speeds (higher RPMs) for any appreciable time...literally, gallons-per-hour! ..."

what if you captured the H2O to re use it? Maybe a radiator in the bottom of a stainless steel box. Water vapor condenses on the walls and drips down to the radiator. Seems like trying to take advantage of the phase change from liguid to gas could yield some really impressive results. Some of you engineering/scientist types may be able to explain what I'm thinking of (or why it wouldn't work).

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2011, 03:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mcrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,523

The Q Sold - '02 Infiniti Q45 Sport
90 day: 23.08 mpg (US)

blackie - '14 nissan altima sv
Thanks: 2,203
Thanked 659 Times in 474 Posts
You can't spray enough water on a radiator to cool it w/o a continuous flow of water.
You are beating a dead horse.

Install an electric fan in front and set on a push instead of a pull function. install a manual switch or a temp comtrolled switch.
put a shroud around the fan to keep the airmoving thru.

You can dance all around this water issue but it is impractical.

someone mentioned the sprayer on the a/c. remeber this system is runnung off a water hose that is 'on' providing a constsance source of water
__________________
MetroMPG: "Get the MPG gauge - it turns driving into a fuel & money saving game."

ECO MODS PERFORMED:
First: ScangaugeII
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...eii-23306.html

Second: Grille Block
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...e-10912-2.html

Third: Full underbelly pan
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...q45-11402.html

Fourth: rear skirts and 30.4mpg on trip!
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post247938
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2011, 07:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
Making Ecomods a G thing
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 655

Angie - '08 Infiniti G35 X
90 day: 22.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 35
Thanked 74 Times in 57 Posts
never seen a water spray bar on an intercooler before, though i have seen plenty of CO2 spray bars, same general concept, but the science behind it is completely different
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2011, 08:56 AM   #20 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
The idea was to use the sprayer for emergency cooling. Why doesn't anyone read the whole thread anymore?

__________________
"ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DIY: OEM VX PCV and Info TomO DIY / How-to 4 04-02-2011 09:38 AM
AC vs DC for DIY MazdaMatt Fossil Fuel Free 15 03-06-2009 09:33 AM
Three Dirt Cheap DIY Electric Cars - Part 4 SVOboy EcoModder Blog Discussion 3 12-12-2008 08:14 PM
Three Dirt Cheap DIY Electric Cars - Part 5 SVOboy EcoModder Blog Discussion 0 12-12-2008 04:10 PM
Three Dirt Cheap DIY Electric Cars - Part 3 SVOboy EcoModder Blog Discussion 0 12-05-2008 10:30 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com