DIY Solutions to Honda Hybrid Battery Problems (Insight, Civic, IMA)

[Formula413]

Driving the car with a damaged battery can hurt the battery more, yes. Is your car manual or automatic? If its has a manual you can wire up a simple circuit to disable assist, which will help prevent further damage to the battery. As to why it has stopped charging, this could be due to the battery's condition, although mine has never stopped charging for an extended period if the battery was not "full".

[RMM2006HCH]

Does the 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid have a similar DC/DC converter enable wire that is identified in this thread for the earlier Civic? I haven't been able to find a definitive answer from searching if/how the 06 can be driven safely with the HV battery removed.

I ask because I will be removing the battery soon to follow the given procedure for rebalancing the cells using a Super Brain 989, and I know that this process will take over a week.

I would like to analyze the status of my current pack before taking on the expense of a salvage battery for spare cells (145k miles, constant recals from full to empty and back, IMA and Engine lights come and go for the past week, code P0A7F: Hybrid Battery Pack Deterioration).

If I cannot drive safely without the battery or if I have some cells in really bad shape, I'll go buy a salvaged pack ($550), rebalance it, swap it for my current pack, rebalance that one, then take both out and swap the best cells into my case and sell the spare pack.

Anyone know for sure about driving without the battery, or have other advice about this situation?

[MD2000]

I do not have a service manual to check if it is the same wire as the 2005 and lower civics, or if it works the same?
The signal is called DC/DC inhibit, so if you can dig up a schematic that would be the best way to proceed.
The 2006 Civic has the dual subpacks with two 6 cell sticks joined with a welded on buss bar. I would expect that one could make up a copper bus bar and screw it on the end of the more readily available 6 cell sticks.
I believe Bumblebee batteries will sell you individual used 6 cell sticks that have been tested.
Good luck

[RMM2006HCH]

Found a schematic, but the DC/DC converter appears to only have 7 wires:
HV(+/-), +12V, Ignition, Ground, and Serial data in/out to the BCM.

This leads me to conclude the enable/inhibit is handled through the databus, so it looks like I'll have to pull the battery and see if it charges or not.

If I do that, am I correct to think 12.6V = not charging, and 14.4V = charging, similar to an alternator charging system?

[Formula413]

Yes, although on my 1st gen Civic hybrid the voltage will alternate between ~12v and 14v. If there is little electrical load it often sits at 12v for long periods. If the 12v battery is not charging properly you should see the battery warning light on the dash.

[MD2000]

Interesting, so they put the DC/DC on the serial buss.
That sucks, it is un likely that you cna run the car without the battery ?
What happens if you turn off the battery, does the 12V battery trouble light come on?
It is possible that the DC/DC logic could be quite different than on the older civics and the Insights, and it may keep the 12V happy regardless of the presence or absence of the battery?

[RMM2006HCH]

With the HV battery removed, the DC/DC converter still works above about 1500 RPM. The IMA/engine/battery lights are illuminated constantly, and the RPM runs a little high (maybe purposely controls the CVT to keep engine speed high for the generator?).

Anyway, the car runs fine without the HV battery. I don't anticipate running the 12V battery dead knowing that the charging system still works, but I'll be taking the highway when its an option to guarantee good charges.

Now on to the refurb...

[MD2000]

Cool,
Thats good to know.
Keep an eye on that 12V though, as you will only have 1 short time running without the dc/dc working before the dash lights go out.
The dc/dc on the earlier civics and the insight will also stop running when at over 4500 rpm when running without the stabilizing load of the battery, as it puts out too high a voltage.
You can get 260V out of the spinning IMA motor when at high rpm, and the output voltage is proportional to rpm, which is why it kicks out at below 1500rpm.
Good luck with your battery work
Mike

[ncdave4life]

Three AA cells will fit comfortably in the space of a single D cell. Connected in parallel, three 3000 mA-hr 1.2v Ni-MH cells are electrically equivalent to one 9000 mA-hr 1.2v D cell, but three brand new tabless AA cells can be purchased (in 150+ quantity) for less than $2 on eBay. {link deleted}

360 of those AA batteries cost about $250, and they have the storage capacity of a full Honda Insight battery pack, and fit comfortably in the same space.

It seems that it should be possible to solder up 360 of those batteries and use them to replace the 120 D cells in a Honda Insight battery pack, for a fraction of the cost. Even if adding solder tabs to each battery doubled the cost, it would still be only about $500 for the AA cells.

From these pictures...
{links deleted}
...it looks like a pretty big job. But not impossible.

Has anyone attempted it?

Alternately, brand new tabless 10,000 mA-hr Ni-MH D cells can be purchased in quantity for about $3.25 each on eBay. {link deleted}

Even if solder tabs added $1 each to that price, 120 of them would still only cost $510.

Has anyone attempted to use such batteries to replace the batteries in a Honda Insight battery pack?

Is there anything special about the Ni-MH batteries in one of those battery packs which would prevent this from working?

Note: this system wouldn't let me post links, so if you want to see the deleted links go here:
www[dot]burtonsys[dot]com/ecomodder13610.html

[Formula413]

Standard off the shelf NiMH cells cannot handle the amperage that IMA battery packs operate at. So unfortunately it's not that simple.