07-29-2024, 04:50 PM
|
#31 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 493
Thanks: 84
Thanked 226 Times in 188 Posts
|
This is maybe pertinent but not part of my original consideration:
" Unfortunately, Royal Navy rejected his idea. The first full-deck aircraft carrier, HMS Argus, was completed in 1918 without a superstructure. As Royal Navy’s experience with Furious, which, in her original carrier configuration, had an immense superstructure in the centre of the flight deck, showed that turbulence was a significant problem for landing aircraft."
https://themaritimepost.com/2021/10/...tarboard-side/
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to j-c-c For This Useful Post:
|
|
Today
|
|
|
Other popular topics in this forum...
|
|
|
07-29-2024, 05:26 PM
|
#32 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,941
Thanks: 8,217
Thanked 8,988 Times in 7,425 Posts
|
Pertinent to "Do Aircraft carriers have any Aero design onsiderations[sic]?" but not what's happening upwind.
The other significant factor was they had the funnels sticking out the side.That didn't last.
__________________
.
.Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster
________________
.
.Because much of what is in the published literature is nonsense,
and much of what isn’t nonsense is not in the scientific literature.
-- Sabine Hossenfelder
|
|
|
08-01-2024, 11:27 AM
|
#33 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,391
Thanks: 24,469
Thanked 7,409 Times in 4,800 Posts
|
' 1918 '
Quote:
Originally Posted by j-c-c
This is maybe pertinent but not part of my original consideration:
" Unfortunately, Royal Navy rejected his idea. The first full-deck aircraft carrier, HMS Argus, was completed in 1918 without a superstructure. As Royal Navy’s experience with Furious, which, in her original carrier configuration, had an immense superstructure in the centre of the flight deck, showed that turbulence was a significant problem for landing aircraft."
https://themaritimepost.com/2021/10/...tarboard-side/
|
In 1918 we'd be looking at very 'light', cloth-covered, tail-dragger, bi-wing aircraft, of rather low stall speed , which are hard enough to master 'on land.' And it's easy to imagine the challenge to landing, on the sea, and all wind variables that could be thrown at a pilot.
Add a hundred years though, and I doubt whether or not the presence of a superstructure's 'aerodynamics' could even be felt by a pilot. The 'momentum' of carrier-ready aircraft of modern-day mass and inertias would render them oblivious to a gust that could wreck an aircraft of 1918.
The 'fuel' alone, on a 1970's NAVY F-4 Phantom, would out weigh the 'total' weight of eleven Curtiss JN-4D 'Jenny' airplanes.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
Last edited by aerohead; 08-01-2024 at 11:28 AM..
Reason: typo
|
|
|
08-01-2024, 12:14 PM
|
#34 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 493
Thanks: 84
Thanked 226 Times in 188 Posts
|
I agree and mainly why landing aspects were never part of my original question.
|
|
|
08-01-2024, 12:41 PM
|
#35 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,941
Thanks: 8,217
Thanked 8,988 Times in 7,425 Posts
|
Oh, really?
Quote:
Specifically, is any gain in laminar airflow across the flight deck to assist/enhance take-off and landings a consideration in the ships overall design?
|
__________________
.
.Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster
________________
.
.Because much of what is in the published literature is nonsense,
and much of what isn’t nonsense is not in the scientific literature.
-- Sabine Hossenfelder
|
|
|
08-01-2024, 05:29 PM
|
#36 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 493
Thanks: 84
Thanked 226 Times in 188 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard
Oh, really?
|
Touche.
However, On the third post (below) on this thread, my second post mere hours later from my first post, I believe I made my first attempt to narrow my threads concern to the bow's takeoff area. Not sure I ever deviated later from that primary area of concern anytime afterwards even if deck after the takeoff area has any issues with airflow.
#3 " On US carriers the deck is extremely flat in the takeoff portion IMO.
My thinking a carrier in many ways might operate as an inverted flat bottom car with a front splitter, optimizing smooth/proper air flow for aircraft on the deck, but my question centers around, is that intentional?"
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to j-c-c For This Useful Post:
|
|
08-01-2024, 08:19 PM
|
#37 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,941
Thanks: 8,217
Thanked 8,988 Times in 7,425 Posts
|
Galloping goalposts. Still don't care.
Quote:
Airborne aircraft carrier
An airborne aircraft carrier is a type of mother ship aircraft which can carry, launch, retrieve and support other smaller parasite aircraft. The only dedicated examples to have been built were airships, although existing heavier-than-air aircraft have been modified for use in similar roles. Wikipedia
|
__________________
.
.Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster
________________
.
.Because much of what is in the published literature is nonsense,
and much of what isn’t nonsense is not in the scientific literature.
-- Sabine Hossenfelder
|
|
|
08-05-2024, 11:17 AM
|
#38 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,391
Thanks: 24,469
Thanked 7,409 Times in 4,800 Posts
|
' intentional '
Quote:
Originally Posted by j-c-c
Touche.
However, On the third post (below) on this thread, my second post mere hours later from my first post, I believe I made my first attempt to narrow my threads concern to the bow's takeoff area. Not sure I ever deviated later from that primary area of concern anytime afterwards even if deck after the takeoff area has any issues with airflow.
#3 "On US carriers the deck is extremely flat in the takeoff portion IMO.
My thinking a carrier in many ways might operate as an inverted flat bottom car with a front splitter, optimizing smooth/proper air flow for aircraft on the deck, but my question centers around, is that intentional?"
|
I would presume that every 'feature' of any military hardware has been 'thought to death.'
'Splitters', while around since 1931 on self-powered passenger rail cars ( WESTINGHOUSE Corp. ), and around 1935 on at least one research automobile ( Koenig- Fachsenfeld's at the FKFS, Stuttgart, Germany ), would be the time frame you'd want to be looking into carrier bow design.
Cross-pollination in fluid mechanics technologies would not escape aircraft carrier design considerations.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
|
|
|
|