Do stop/start systems wear out the starter motor? Discussion with an engineer.

[MetroMPG]

Useless anecdote time!

I haven't replaced a starter since my VW Rabbit (g1 Golf) days. They seemed prone to wear out though. And that was pre-manual stop/start driving era for me.

On the other hand, the starter in my parents' 2004 Camry died last winter. And that's a mostly highway-driven car.

I do believe Wayne @ CMPG had to replace the very-frequently-operated starter in his auto-transmission Accord.

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The lowly Mitsu Mirage has stop/start in Europe & Japan. It has a different 12v battery and starter. (And a different alternator, in models equipped with 12v 'regen' braking.)

[oil pan 4]

When I was active duty air force we had a lot of stupid rules. Combine stupid rules with a bad flight line layout and a situation was created where flight line tow vehicles were turned off and started up to 100 times per day up to 24hr 7 days per week.
On the Ford powerstroke and Cummins powered trucks with heavy duty starters this didn't seem to effect their life expectancy very much. I would be surprised if it even cut their life in half.
Light duty gasoline powered vehicles such as Chevy bread vans with 6.0L gas, ford Rangers and S-10 it may have cut their starter life in half. But these vehicles would only get started up to a few dozen times per day and we're usually only used for one or 2 shifts.

Don't worry about oil drain down. I have taken apart engines that had been sitting up to 20 years that still had oil up inside everything.
The oil drain down idea clearly was invented by people who have never taken apart an engine.

My solution is for my diesel is to get a gear reduction starter and for my gas engine V8 engine use the power master rare earth magnet, gear reduction, ball bearing starter.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

As long as those idle shut-off systems become mainstream, this issue is going to be less relevant. Also, many improvements originally meant for the electric motors applied to the hybrid drivelines eventually might find its way into the starter motors (which may find themselves turned into some sort of mild-hybrid setup as the time goes on).

[sendler]

It's actually bizarre how quickly and smoothly a new direct injected Mercedes restarts. It literally starts on the first piston coming over. And with no engagement or disengagement noise. Once we finally go with a BLDC motor on the flywheel like the Insight had, there will be no moving parts and we can eliminate the starter and the alternator and have some mild hybrid.
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There are some companies persuing a belt drive high voltage starter/ charger.
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I once saw an engine with a collision damage to the block being run with no oil in it to make sure the insurance company would total it. It ran at 3,000 rpm for two hours and never would give any signs of giving up until they let out the coolant.

[Fingie]

war wagon has a cheap starter. Replacement is cheap.

My dad has a Mercedes w204 c220 Bluefficiency wagon.

Fires right up. I recall mb starting the engine by firing in a compressed cylinder.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by sendler

It's actually bizarre how quickly and smoothly a new direct injected Mercedes restarts. It literally starts on the first piston coming over. And with no engagement or disengagement noise.

I noticed it not just in the newer Mercedes, but also in Audi. I just didn't had a chance to see it in any car fitted with a manual transmission.

Once we finally go with a BLDC motor on the flywheel like the Insight had, there will be no moving parts and we can eliminate the starter and the alternator and have some mild hybrid.

Even a full-hybrid setup could rely on a "pancake" motor integrated to the flywheel, and also eliminate either a conventional clutch or a torque converter. IIRC the hybrid versions of some BMW cars and Hino trucks rely on a similar layout.

There are some companies persuing a belt drive high voltage starter/ charger.

IIRC Toyota had already tried it in the first hybrid version of the Crown, even though it had already developed the HSD system. It may seem like a cheap makeshift, but it doesn't sound like a bad idea at all as it might be easier to apply to lower-end econoboxes and to increase the familiarity of independent auto repairers with hybrids and to promote awareness about this technology.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by sendler

It's actually bizarre how quickly and smoothly a new direct injected Mercedes restarts. It literally starts on the first piston coming over. And with no engagement or disengagement noise.

My previous Superbeetle would do that, the starter would engage and it would fire on 1/4 revolution.

Here's a thread that addresses the issue:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tor-35003.html

A 20hp watercooled altermotor with a seven-groove serpentine belt under so much tension it requires a special tool to release it.

I want one on a VW Beetle engine. A bolt-on 25% power increase, stop/start, regen and prolly 25% better gas mileage. They're $100 in the junkyards.

[LittleBlackDuck]

Originally Posted by freebeard

A 20hp watercooled altermotor with a seven-groove serpentine belt under so much tension it requires a special tool to release it.

I want one on a VW Beetle engine. A bolt-on 25% power increase, stop/start, regen and prolly 25% better gas mileage. They're $100 in the junkyards.

With that much tension, I would hope that it does not snap the crank snout or destroy the main bearing.

Simon

[oil pan 4]

I find the front main bearing on engines with multiple V-belts wears the most.

[freebeard]

Maybe one could bolt a crutch onto the oil pump housing?