The downside of heavy, overpowered trucks and SUVs

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I know this from experience after owning a 2013 Nissan Leaf

You owned the most rapidly degrading "modern" EV, and it was also among the most rapidly depreciating. In 2014 the Spark EV came out, and that seems to be holding up much better. The 2017 Bolt has performed very well. They were going for as low as ~$22k brand new at one point, and I had my eyes on some used ones in the $14k range.

The bar I hold cars to is they need to transport what I need to transport. So at least 4 seatbelts and I can add a tow hitch for the rest. And the car needs to be under 20% average of my average income at most

Towing almost necessitates an ICE of some sort, which is why a plug-in hybrid probably makes the most sense from a total cost of ownership perspective.

I need to subscribe to Toyota's repair info service to get the torque specs ($25 for two days). I'll probably have the dealer do the radio because at best it's a $70 subcription for every 2 days plus a $500 Mongoose OBDII tool just to have the tools to do it.

Should be able to get those specs for free. I bet a forum member would just tell you.

I got a TechStream CD along with my USB to OBDII cable for $15 when I wanted to turn that annoying reverse beep off of the Prius. There's no reason why one has to purchase the overpriced OEM stuff.

Originally Posted by rmay635703

It’s unfortunate mechanisms to enable any hybrid to run battery free don’t exist.

The way many (most?) modern eCVT hybrids work require the traction battery to have some minimum level of performance because the motors don't just propel the vehicle, but also provide the continuously variable gear ratios. Losing power to a motor would be akin to a completely busted transmission.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

You owned the most rapidly degrading "modern" EV, and it was also among the most rapidly depreciating. In 2014 the Spark EV came out, and that seems to be holding up much better. The 2017 Bolt has performed very well. They were going for as low as ~$22k brand new at one point, and I had my eyes on some used ones in the $14k range.

I did mention others do have better batteries.

I was kind of interested in a Bolt since with all incentives here in Colorado I could get one brand new for as little as $14,000, at least in theory. But neither I nor anyone in my family qualify for the full tax credit, not even half, so forget that.

There was also a YouTuber (Transport Evolved) who's A/C pump went out on her Bolt and it cost $3,000 to repair. That turned me away from ever wanting one, even at $14,000.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Towing almost necessitates an ICE of some sort, which is why a plug-in hybrid probably makes the most sense from a total cost of ownership perspective.

I disagree to an extent. It depends on what you're towing and how far. If I need to go get a couch a few blocks from here I it's much easier with a little trailer than to go carry it by hand. And the only Uhaul store here says he's closing up shop for good. And no, he's not selling the property to another person who could continue the Uhaul business.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Should be able to get those specs for free. I bet a forum member would just tell you.

I got a TechStream CD along with my USB to OBDII cable for $15 when I wanted to turn that annoying reverse beep off of the Prius. There's no reason why one has to purchase the overpriced OEM stuff.

I did ask on Priuschat. I was told to go get my own TIS subscription.

I bought a USB to OBDII cable and copy of TechStream that I never ever did make work.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I bought a USB to OBDII cable and copy of TechStream that I never ever did make work.

I vaguely recall TechStream requiring something funky for me to use it, like Windows 7 or something. I probably dusted off an old laptop to program the car.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The way many (most?) modern eCVT hybrids work require the traction battery to have some minimum level of performance because the motors don't just propel the vehicle, but also provide the continuously variable gear ratios. Losing power to a motor would be akin to a completely busted transmission.

That's why sometimes Toyota's HSD seems quite a bad idea. I've seen reports of battery failures in hybrid buses for instance, yet they having a more conventional AMT won't render them totally useless.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I did mention others do have better batteries.

I was kind of interested in a Bolt since with all incentives here in Colorado I could get one brand new for as little as $14,000, at least in theory. But neither I nor anyone in my family qualify for the full tax credit, not even half, so forget that.

If you would have leased the Bolt you could have got the full $7500 because with a lease the leasing company owns the vehicle not the person leasing the vehicle. When leasing the customer's income has zero effect on the tax credit.

Starting in 2024 you can transfer the credit to the dealer and they are required by law to apply the full rebate to the purchase price as a point of sale rebate.

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

There was also a YouTuber (Transport Evolved) who's A/C pump went out on her Bolt and it cost $3,000 to repair. That turned me away from ever wanting one, even at $14,000.

They got ripped off - AC Delco OEM compressor for my 2017 Bolt

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

If you would have leased the Bolt you could have got the full $7500 because with a lease the leasing company owns the vehicle not the person leasing the vehicle. When leasing the customer's income has zero effect on the tax credit.

Starting in 2024 you can transfer the credit to the dealer and they are required by law to apply the full rebate to the purchase price as a point of sale rebate.

Oh, I've been looking for a lease where that full $7,500 is included in the price, but so far I haven't been able to. Just finding a mostly base LT1 Bolt is also kind of hard as all the dealers seem to have only a few LT2 with several options and not much more than that. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough.

We still don't know for sure if the point of sale credit will be tax liability dependent or not yet. Not until 2024 comes. Plus, by that time the Bolt will no longer be in production. What is the cheapest EV that will be available in 2024? I guess I could get a used Bolt, but then I wouldn't be elegible for the $5,000 Colorado credit.

Speaking of which, the Colorado EV credit will be $7,500 in 2024 and isn't tax liability dependent as far as I understand.

https://energyoffice.colorado.gov/tr...20%2480%2C000.

I see the credit also applies to plug-in hybrids.

Originally Posted by JSH

They got ripped off - AC Delco OEM compressor for my 2017 Bolt

[img]

They said the compressor ended up costing a lot more because they needed an EV certified mechanic, a special, more costly refrigerant, and who knows what all else. It seems like they got nickeled and dimed to death.

I would hope I could just grab a ~$300 compressor, bolt it on, and then go down to the local mechanic and ask for a $150 refrigerant flush. I suppose if there's a YouTube video of someone doing it, it can be done.

[redpoint5]

TE are the "accept whatever" type of folks, so they get put over a barrel by the "take everything you can" type of folks. I blame both personality types as it takes 2 to tango.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

They said the compressor ended up costing a lot more because they needed an EV certified mechanic, a special, more costly refrigerant, and who knows what all else. It seems like they got nickeled and dimed to death.

I would hope I could just grab a ~$300 compressor, bolt it on, and then go down to the local mechanic and ask for a $150 refrigerant flush. I suppose if there's a YouTube video of someone doing it, it can be done.

I've never been charged extra for an "EV certified" tech. Any dealership that is selling EVs should have at least one and the posted labor rate is the labor rate.

EVs use the same R1234YF refrigerant as a regular car. The Bolt uses 2.3 lbs. R1234YF is about $100 a lb at the RETAIL level - about half that wholesale.

The PAG oil that lubricates the compressor is much more expensive as it has to have lower conductivity than a normal PAG oil. That runs about $400 for a 5 gallon pail so $0.61 per oz. A car the size of the Bolt should use about 4 oz.

So we are at generously another $250 for refrigerant and PAG oil

So $550 for parts / $2450 for labor - they got ripped off.

[Isaac Zachary]

Listening to the video again, they sold the A/C compressor to her for just shy of $900, told her the refrigerant was a special environmentally friendly refrigerant and that the technician had to be both EV and A/C certified and so cost more.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

Listening to the video again, they sold the A/C compressor to her for just shy of $900, told her the refrigerant was a special environmentally friendly refrigerant and that the technician had to be both EV and A/C certified and so cost more.

So not only was she ripped off (a 2.5X part markup over retail is CRAZY) she was lied to There is nothing special about R1234YF. Automakers in the USA started switching to it more than a decade ago and every new light duty vehicle in the USA was required to use R1234YF starting in 2021.

R1234YF is more environmentally friendly than R134A that it replaced but there is nothing special about today.

BTW, when did youtube take away the search feature inside a channel? I can't find this video among the hundreds that she has made. Did she have the repair done at a dealer or some fly by night little shop? How many quotes did she get before agreeing to pay $3,000 for a compressor replacement?