Dynamic Cylinder Deactivation

[Heihetech]

Originally Posted by EdKiefer

That interesting from an electronic side of things but mechanically nothing is happening to valves for pumping loss issue .

If we look at say Honda's VCM V6 (which has 4 and 3 cylinder modes) thy disable the intake and exhaust valves . they also are balanced in respect to cylinders that are firing and order .

The only real issue with this system is it is not dynamic rotation of cylinders that can be disabled , this has led to some fouled plugs over time .

Do you have a vid of this system running (disabling/enabling ) cylinders ?

DCD's Electronics Solution Makes Things Simple and Flexible. If mechanical
retrofitting to valves is involved, it's impossible, or at least very hard, to implemet aftermarket retrofitting products.

What do you mean by "vid of this system running (disabling/enabling ) cylinders"?
If you mean DCD control pattern, one example has been posted with my online
article as Table 1 ------

http://autoelectronics.com/mag/dynam...recovery-1229/

You may find out that only by electronics method can we implement DCD.

[Heihetech]

Originally Posted by Dunkler

Heihetech, I will do some ABA testing on my 2007 Honda Fit A/T with your engineering sample, if you provide all the necessary instructions and will warrant my vehicles engine in the event of damage.

Edit: My guidelines for this testing are as follows:

1. I will install this into my vehicle according to your specifications.

2. I will do ABA testing and provide the data in the way that you specify.

3. I will not be charged to install this engineering sample.

4. I will not pay for the engineering sample.

5. If the engineering sample damages my vehicles engine, you will assume the liability for repairing said damage.

6. Once testing is complete, and if the product works, I will keep the product in return for the data that I will provide to you.

Dear Dunkler, thanks for the interest and Welcome to Try Free DCD-440
Engineering Sample!

It looks no problem for your 6 points under which to try DCD-440 for free.
DCD has been played and test on many vehicles for almost 10 vehicle-years,
no damage was found in any vehicle tested. There's no reason to make any
damage. But it does break manufacturer's warranty, so that you need to
make sure either your vehicle's warranty period is over, or your vehicle's
manufacturer, Honda, will not refuse to make the repair under warranty once
DCD-440 product is installed.

Please let me know further details of your vehicle so that we can move
forward. Also please let me know your test plan and the test meter/gauge.

[Heihetech]

Originally Posted by t vago

Please show something other than your inflated claims about how deliberately putting a vehicle into limp-in mode will somehow save fuel.

DCD TEST DATA IS TRUE, NOT INFLATED. WHY NEED TO BE INFLATED?

I have told you many times that DCD saves fuel by reducing engine
diaplacement, and by making engine displacement variable, and by best
matching engine power to the driving load requirement. If you still can't
understand, there's nothing to say.... Please stop asking stupid questions.

[toc]

Answer me this please (genuine question):
ECUs idle an engine at a specific RPM - 650RPM or 700RPM.

When the RPMs drop below 650RPM, more mixture is injected to bring idle up to that RPM (as to move the engine at 650RPM, when it's running at 500RPM, more fuel is a necessity).

If you disable fuel and spark to two cylinders, the power being produced is less, the cylinders not firing (even dynamically), are a drag on the entire engine (the weight of the piston is still being moved).

When you move that piston, with less fuel being injected, the RPM will drop as there is an increase in drag on the engine (the piston that is not firing, even if that piston is variable).

Doesn't that simply mean that because the engine has to move more parasitic weight, that the cylinders that are firing, need more fuel to maintain the same Idle RPM (as without that extra injection, the RPM would otherwise fall)?

Limp Home Mode is a 'feature' of some cars where the ECU enters a "limp home" mode, where the engine speed won't exceed a certain threshold because of a failure with something. I think in that situation all cylinders do still fire, but the ECU won't pass a certain rev range.
Electronic throttle control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All cars having a TPS have what is known as a 'limp-home-mode'. When the car goes into the limp-home-mode it is because the accelerator and engine control computer and the throttle are not talking to each other in a way that they can understand. The engine control computer shuts down the signal to the throttle position motor and a set of springs in the throttle set it to a fast idle, fast enough to get the transmission in gear but not so fast that driving may be dangerous.

So it still runs as it should in terms of spark and fuel, but it limits the revs so that you can't go so fast and you end up as the name suggests, 'limp[ing] home'.

This won't limit the RPMs - because that's controlled by the ECU in FI cars, and so my question I think is the most relevant - if you reduce the number of cylinders, the RPMs will drop as well, and to bring the RPMs back up, more fuel must be injected into the remaining cylinders, and that applies regardless if the affected cylinder is variable or fixed.

Happy to be corrected - I might be (and have been) wrong.

[Dunkler]

Originally Posted by Heihetech

Dear Dunkler, thanks for the interest and Welcome to Try Free DCD-440
Engineering Sample!

It looks no problem for your 6 points under which to try DCD-440 for free.
DCD has been played and test on many vehicles for almost 10 vehicle-years,
no damage was found in any vehicle tested. There's no reason to make any
damage. But it does break manufacturer's warranty, so that you need to
make sure either your vehicle's warranty period is over, or your vehicle's
manufacturer, Honda, will not refuse to make the repair under warranty once
DCD-440 product is installed.

Please let me know further details of your vehicle so that we can move
forward. Also please let me know your test plan and the test meter/gauge.

Heihetech, Specs for my vehicle are as follows:

Vehicle: 2007 Honda Fit Sport
Engine: 1.5 Liter In-Line 4-Cylinder
Engine Block/Cylinder Head: Aluminum Alloy
Displacement: 1497 cc
HP @ RPM: 109 @ 5800
TQ @ RPM: 105 @ 4800
Redline: 6500 rpm
Bore & Stroke: 73 x 89.4
Compression Ratio: 10.4 : 1
Valve Train: 16-Valve SOHC VTEC
Multi-Point Fuel Inj: YES
Drive by Wire Throttle: YES
Front Wheel Drive: YES
Carb Emissions Rating: LEV-2

My testing procedure is as follows: I commute everyday to work the same road and same speeds and same distance. It is exactly a 91.1 mile round trip for me on mostly hwy's traveling 55-60mph. I will use an Ultra-Gauge to record the results.

[t vago]

Originally Posted by Heihetech

DCD TEST DATA IS TRUE, NOT INFLATED. WHY NEED TO BE INFLATED?

I have told you many times that DCD saves fuel by reducing engine
diaplacement, and by making engine displacement variable, and by best
matching engine power to the driving load requirement. If you still can't
understand, there's nothing to say.... Please stop asking stupid questions.

You also can't answer others' questions about your supposedly working system. You cannot provide a working video, instead referring us to some ad copy on your website. You cannot answer questions about actual thermodynamic pumping losses in an internal combustion engine, preferring instead to claim that your "DCD" can't work with real variable displacement engines. The things that you claim of your DCD would throw a late-model car with OBDII into limp-in mode.

I've noticed that you did not offer to warrant Dunkler's engine as he had requested as part being a volunteer to test your device. False reassurances do not a warranty make. An unspecified "many" vehicles for 10 vehicle-years? Really? It's not Dunkler's responsibility to fix his engine if your device should break it - it's yours.

Show us something that's actually working, HeiHetech. You've been promising something for 3 years running, with no actual device.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by toc

Answer me this please (genuine question):
ECUs idle an engine at a specific RPM - 650RPM or 700RPM.

When the RPMs drop below 650RPM, more mixture is injected to bring idle up to that RPM (as to move the engine at 650RPM, when it's running at 500RPM, more fuel is a necessity).

If you disable fuel and spark to two cylinders, the power being produced is less, the cylinders not firing (even dynamically), are a drag on the entire engine (the weight of the piston is still being moved).

When you move that piston, with less fuel being injected, the RPM will drop as there is an increase in drag on the engine (the piston that is not firing, even if that piston is variable).

Doesn't that simply mean that because the engine has to move more parasitic weight, that the cylinders that are firing, need more fuel to maintain the same Idle RPM (as without that extra injection, the RPM would otherwise fall)?

Limp Home Mode is a 'feature' of some cars where the ECU enters a "limp home" mode, where the engine speed won't exceed a certain threshold because of a failure with something. I think in that situation all cylinders do still fire, but the ECU won't pass a certain rev range.
Electronic throttle control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So it still runs as it should in terms of spark and fuel, but it limits the revs so that you can't go so fast and you end up as the name suggests, 'limp[ing] home'.

This won't limit the RPMs - because that's controlled by the ECU in FI cars, and so my question I think is the most relevant - if you reduce the number of cylinders, the RPMs will drop as well, and to bring the RPMs back up, more fuel must be injected into the remaining cylinders, and that applies regardless if the affected cylinder is variable or fixed.

Happy to be corrected - I might be (and have been) wrong.

None of these deac systems are on for idle, but I think you are just bringing up idle for illustrating the extra drag of non-working cylinders.

Yes it's true the remaining cylinders have to work harder when some are deactivated... THAT'S THE POINT! To a certain level, the harder a cylinder works, the more efficient it is. So the trick is to more than offset the added parasitic losses with even more efficiency.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by t vago

You also can't answer others' questions about your supposedly working system. You cannot provide a working video, instead referring us to some ad copy on your website. You cannot answer questions about actual thermodynamic pumping losses in an internal combustion engine, preferring instead to claim that your "DCD" can't work with real variable displacement engines. The things that you claim of your DCD would throw a late-model car with OBDII into limp-in mode.

I've noticed that you did not offer to warrant Dunkler's engine as he had requested as part being a volunteer to test your device. False reassurances do not a warranty make. An unspecified "many" vehicles for 10 vehicle-years? Really? It's not Dunkler's responsibility to fix his engine if your device should break it - it's yours.

Show us something that's actually working, HeiHetech. You've been promising something for 3 years running, with no actual device.

I wouldn't expect this thing to work with an engine that already has DOD- two competing systems = trouble... unless the factory DOD was deactivated for tests.

I wouldn't warranty someone else's engine either. Whoever wants to play this game assumes the risk. That said, I don't see how it would hurt anything therefore I think the risk for damage is low. But I do think the risk for wasted time and energy is high as I believe the entire premise is faulty.

[Dunkler]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I wouldn't expect this thing to work with an engine that already has DOD- two competing systems = trouble... unless the factory DOD was deactivated for tests.

I wouldn't warranty someone else's engine either. Whoever wants to play this game assumes the risk. That said, I don't see how it would hurt anything therefore I think the risk for damage is low. But I do think the risk for wasted time and energy is high as I believe the entire premise is faulty.

SO Frank, with all do respect my friend, if you put an aftermarket supercharger on your motor and followed the directions to the T, but the dang thing ruined your engine, not because of carelessness but because of a design flaw, wouldn't you expect that company to make it right?

I dunno, maybe that's crazy to think, but in my opinion companies are responsible for their products. It seems as if we are forgetting that more and more in America.

[Frank Lee]

If I had a product but the customer installed it, I have no control over the quality and correctness of the install, the pre-existing condition of the engine, the fitness of my product for the customer's use, and the fitness of the customer to set it up and use it properly.

Nope, for warranty I'd want more control over those things. Then when it blows up I know it's my doing. Of course this depends on the nature of the product.

I've seen the nonsense customers are capable of. Just when you think you've devised something foolproof, they come out with a bigger fool.