E15 on the way?

[Frank Lee]

I've found a place to scavenge food so bountiful, I get $50-$100+ worth of food there every time. I've had so much of it lately I'm almost sick of it- gonna give it a rest and grocery shop like everyone else for a while.

[Ladogaboy]

You've been raiding the fridge at my office? The only caveat is: You have to get it before it goes bad or the cleaning crew gets it.

[Frank Lee]

Nope, it's even better than office fridges. I'll just say their business model leaves a lot to be desired.

[gone-ot]

...you been free-loading from the State and Gobberment (wink,wink)?

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

If you are the government you think like this:
Why let them get 35mpg when you can mandate they get 30mpg, since all the taxes paid are based on volume sales.

If you are the oil company why let them get 87 octane gas and 35mpg @ 3.70 a gallon when you can sell them low cost substandard 78 octane gas, mix in 15% ethanol to get a tax break and end up with a lower energy content 87 octane fuel mix sold for the same price?

Remember folks, most large oil companies FULLY support ethanol, it allows them to sell our high grade oil overseas and buy back low grade stuff made on antique equipment from the lowest bidder.

Its the american way.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

Its the american way.

...let me correct that for you, "...american Enron/Ponzi way..."

[Allch Chcar]

IMHO, E15 is an incredibly short sighted goal. I would rather vehicles be mandated to be FFV or simply wait for more and more cars to become FFV over time

E15 is NOT replacing E10, they are talking about adding a second pump dedicated to E15. Instead of 3 grades, there would be Regular Gasohol(E10), E15(2001+ only), then Premium(which in some cases would be 100% gasoline). Station would need to label them to avoid lawsuits if something were to happen. Nevermind that some cars have been shown to run E40 without modification and E85 with fueling adjustments. There are cases where a vehicle fire has been blamed on E10.

So while this isn't great news, it isn't exactly bad news either.

Originally Posted by payne171

So E85 is naturally cheaper than gasoline? Without subsidies? I have seen the energy cost of producing ethanol; I don't see how that is possible. Even if it is cheaper, it's not really cheaper because it causes fuel economy nosedive. Then, everybody has to pay for it regardless of how much they drive because it causes the cost of grain and grain fed products to go up.
...

Ethanol prices have gone up since the blending mandate and the VEETC. It used to be much cheaper than it is now. The increased demand for Ethanol for blending which profited Oil companies and kept the price of Corn and Ethanol artificially high. But this has killed E85 demand.

I see people debating politics.

[KY_Canyon]

The reasoning for the E85 labeling has little to do with liability of the fuel station (can't really call them "gas" stations anymore). The label is the result of the auto makers stomping their feet because of the vast number of mechanical issues that they expect to result from use of E85 in engines that weren't specifically designed to "tolerate" it. The cold hard truth is the engine requirements for a gasoline engine vs an ethanol engine are different. So, when we use a blend (or varying blends) there is no way to build an engine that is as efficient as it could/should be. Some sacrifice must be made either way. Look at the GM Flex Fuel vehicles, even with the systems to sense ethanol blends and self adjust they have severe decreases in efficiency.

[payne171]

I don't think FFVs face any efficiency reductions when they are running on 100% gasoline. The automakers simply add a sensor that can tell when it has E85 in the tank, then spray enough fuel to compensate for the different AF ratio. Of course, there is a considerable fuel efficiency drop when it runs on E85 because the compression ratio is far too low. Not to beat a dead horse, but that is another reason why I like butanol better-87 octane. Of course, oil companies don't like that because it won't boost the octane rating of really cheap gasoline.

[Allch Chcar]

Stations should be labeling the minimum/maximum Ethanol content.

We wouldn't have this problem if Blenderpumps became the norm... We could get pure gasoline next to E85.

The sensors are no longer used...