Eaarth

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Weather Spotter

I choose to belive in a caring God. If I am wrong, what have I lost? If I am right I avoid an eternity in Hell! If nothing else I am making the safest choise.

A caring god still has to give you a choice in terms of screwing up the planet, and depending on how strict your religion is, that may be enough to send you to the big "h".

[dcb]

Pascals wager is not valid unless you make some reeeelly big assumptions, which are probably also invalid.

[Arragonis]

He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife.

Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.

[dcb]

A philosopher claimed, "Possibly the gods exist, and possibly they do not. So why not believe in them in any case? If it's all true you'll go to a lovely place when you die, and if it isn't then you've lost nothing, right?" When the philosopher died, "he woke up in a circle of gods holding nasty-looking sticks and one of them said, 'We're going to show you what we think of Mr Clever Dick in these parts...'"

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by dcb

Pascals wager is not valid unless you make some reeeelly big assumptions, which are probably also invalid.

I don't think anyone can say anything about the validity or invalidity of a god, which is why there's that whole faith thing. That doesn't mean people can't criticize religion, after all one of the tenets in most religions is that man can be flawed/wrong. The worst IMO tend to be Judeo-Christians turned Aesthetic. They can take religious fervor to a whole new level. Some of the sciencey people can be pretty bad too. Can't discern the difference between what they can provide and what they can't I guess.

[NeilBlanchard]

Do you believe that Global Climate Change is real, and that it is caused by humans?

If you do not believe in the Theory of Gravity, will you float away?

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Do you believe that Global Climate Change is real,

Yes, the climate is changing. It has been doing so pretty much as long as the Earth has been around. We have historical records and events showing both warmer and colder periods in history. Reconstructions show both a flat trend until recently (the Hockey Stick - which is contraversial because of the methods used) and both the MWP and LIA being detected in proxies.

The peak and trough temperatures during those periods and where they may have happened are also the subject of debate.

There is too much uncertainty for this to be a proven thing.

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

and that it is caused by humans?

It wasn't in the past and there hasn't been a successful link drawn directly between human activity now and what is happening to the climate. In fact there is a lot of doubt and uncertainty that we even know what is happening in the climate at the moment.

Again, there is too much uncertainty for this to be a proven thing, so the only honest answer to this one is that we just don't know. Even the UK Royal Society's new 'advice' on climate change now accepts a lot of uncertainty - not enough though.

And they get their statement wrong about how long CO2 exists in the atmosphere anyway. Clever chaps those.

One rather, IMHO, dishonest trait is that links are accepted between some weather consequences (e.g. Pakistan floods) which support the warming case, and are denied (e.g. European cold snap last winter) when they don't support the case. i.e. "The weather is not the climate" only seems to count one way.

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

If you do not believe in the Theory of Gravity, will you float away?

Gravity is both a law and a theory. The law part is demonstrated when you drop something it falls to the earth. The theory part is attempting to explain why this happens. But it is a law, otherwise sat-nav wouldn't work and clearly it does - well mostly.

[tumnasgt]

It's climate change, which is about more extreme weather, not just a less harsh winter. I'm undecided about what I believe, so I err on the side of caution, and it saves me money anyway, so I don't really care.

I've never understood why so many companies complain it will cost them so much, when if they just stopped wasting so much they would save money, and carbon taxes wouldn't be needed. Sure, there are extreme levels of cut backs which will cost them, but simple things like turning off the air con and lights at night in office buildings would benefit everybody.

[Weather Spotter]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Do you believe that Global Climate Change is real, and that it is caused by humans?

If you do not believe in the Theory of Gravity, will you float away?

No I have not seen the hard facts global temp (non "adjusted" numbers) over a long enough time span to say that the earth is warming beyond it's normal cycles.

When the data gives me 500-1000 years of reliable info then I can look at the graph and draw conclusions. What will I see on this graph? lots of ups and downs, some larger than others but I will see cycles like, 30, 100, 500, 1500 yr ect.

Tell me now which one we are in?
Why did 30-40 yr ago people get freaked out about global cooing?

These people who believe we are killing earth have a funny way of looking at change. if Evolution is true (not in my Book, the Bible) then you have a 4-5 Billion year old planet so I need to see 1 Billion years of data

What, you do not have that?

Ok, tell me this, is the earth not just evolving into something different?
Why stop progress?

Why should I lower my standard of living to fix some tree hugging person's guilt attack? It seems that no mater what there is another massive problem to fix or we will all die (global cooling, ozone hole, global warming, whats next?).


Believe what you want to but DO NOT force me to change for your belief. debate me in the area of hard facts and win me over.

[dcb]

The possibility that fish eventually learned to breathe air is not mutually exclusive of the possibility that invisible creatures are waiting to take the chosen ones to an eternally blissful afterlife.