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Old 08-19-2013, 04:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Not sure on the thinner oils idea.

With Aygos (my previous car) the "2012" models managed to get into the 0 tax bracket (measured on CO2) mainly due to the use of thinner oils - there were no other mechanical changes over the "2011" models which were in the 20 bracket.

At the same time owners of 2011 models who swapped to the 2012 versions noted an increase in engine noise. There were also some incidents of piston slap with one or two owners having their brand new engines replaced under warranty.

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Old 08-19-2013, 06:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Ewww.... how thin was this oil? 0W-20 or something? Otherwise I find this news a bit disturbing.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I tried 0w20 sythetic with no fuel economy difference....so I run 5w30 conventional

I grill block up until the point where the radiator fan does not engage on the highway. If it starts to turn on start taking pieces off.

I run autos so I don't do EOC or any of that stuff.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPGranger View Post
He is not an apprentice, he is a fully certified mill wright.
Pretty remote from car tech, isn't it ?

Seeing the loggers on Discovery ... even taking into account it's for telly ... hardly representative for car use.
Run it hard until it breaks, then moan about it, seems to be the norm.

Quote:
He says that the higher temperatures actually change the molecular composition and weakens the metal.
Sure, but that only happens at temperatures that'd kill any engine.
You're not getting anywhere near those temps by blocking the grille - given that your cooling system can still cope.

Grille blocks are very much OEM these days ...

Quote:
2) Running thinner lubrication. He says that thinner lubes essentially run like water, increasing friction. So this adds excessive heat, which due to thermal expansion increases friction again.
Thinner weight mostly refers to the cold viscosity.
i.e. 0w or 5w oils.

These actually start to lube an engine FASTER, reducing cold wear and friction at the same time. They till lube, don't worry about that.

Put 20wXX in a modern car engine in a colder climate, and you'll very likely ruin it on the double.

Cars use lower "hot" weight oils due to reduced manufacturing tolerances - and because it reduces friction.
The heavy oils (50,60) won't sufficiently go where they need to, to lube your modern car engine.


His milling equipment may well date a good while back, or be designed in old fashioned "unbreakable" style.
That equipment was easier to fix, and to keep running by adding ever more oil, thicker oil as they wore down, then new rings, resleeving ...


Fact is, modern cars break down ever less because of mechanical engine failures.
The electronics and accessories give up, not so much the engine.
Despite less, and less often changed, thinner oils ...


Quote:
3) EOC. Wears out batteries, wears out starters, wears out cooling system, wears out engine.
Every engine start means extra wear.
Once the engine is thoroughly warm, it won't be a lot though.
Doing so when cold, is not going to be good in the long run.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:54 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeanBurn View Post
I tried 0w20 sythetic with no fuel economy difference....so I run 5w30 conventional

I run autos so I don't do EOC or any of that stuff.
With the V50 diesel, I could hear the difference between 0W30 and 5W30 oil after a cold start in winter, and see it in the fuel consumption.
In Alberta, it's cold enough to see that.

Your auto tranny may well be masking a lot of these effects.

Better not to run Xw20 oils unless the engine is designed for them.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gealii View Post
most people forget the fact that with manuals you can bump start the car.
Which may not go down well with the catalyst ...
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Ewww.... how thin was this oil? 0W-20 or something? Otherwise I find this news a bit disturbing.
Yep it was 0w- oil. Most owners run the first change through as 0w and then change to the previous grade. The car is still 0 tax as it runs off the tested rating and doesn't include mods.

Also worth noting that apart from those who knew and complained a lot nobody (AFAIK) had an engine fail because of the "piston slap". In fact quite a few older engines also had this at higher miles - allegedly. Also quite a few engines with it are still happy at over 130K miles.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
3. EOC will cause increased stress on some components. Catalytic converters suffer from increased heat cooling cycles. Sentra stopped using EOC when he found it was causing his emissions to increase dramatcially, to the point where testing showed long term effects (he is certainly free to add info, this is what I read from his posts). I don't believe EOC overstresses cooling systems. Obviously if you EOC enough to drain your battery if will shorten battery life, and if you use the starter more frequently, then, in my opinion you will reduce it's life expectancy. Repeated heat-cool events, beyond what is considered normal could also increase the accumulation of EGR-PCV deposits.
I did find my emissions went through the roof with long-term EOC. As a result, I stopped EOC for 6622 miles last Winter/Spring. I took a 6 mpg hit, but ran clean emissions.

I eventually rationalized I emit less pollutants in a year than an oil supertanker emits in .63 seconds, and we employ the equivalent of ~11 supertankers spewing pollutants 24/7 just to supply middle east oil to our refineries to supply the USA's thirst for oil. Ergo, I went back to EOC P&G.

One caveat about running thinner oils in older engines. Toyota TSB EG018-06 recommends 5W-20W oil in my '06 Scion xB's 1NZ-FE engine, but not in the '04 and '05 Scion xBs, which are equipped with the same 1NZ-FE engine. I'm guessing the newer engines have tighter and/or smoother bearing surfaces to run the thinner oil without damage.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
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My car does a kind of EOC coasting all by itself. The engine does not really shut off, but the valves will open completely and no gas is injected so the pistons move freely in clean air.
Instead of a conventional flywheel it has a generator/electric motor that can power it along while the hybrid battery is not depleted and the right pedal is being feathered. Coasts can last for more than a minute this way, just governed by the right foot. Bad for emissions? Tell Honda.
As the engine rotates even in EV mode anyting fed by the engine keeps working, like the oil pump and the brakes.

I still run the LGB. In winter while hypermiling it is a necessity to at least retain some of the little bit of heat. When I arrive at work after 36 km it is just beginning to warm the interior.
Even in summer I experience no problems. In fact my fans have kicked in only once, when stuck in a traffic jam at nearly 40C running the AC at full blast. Killed the AC (recirculation on), fans died immediately.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:47 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I ran my 2002 Infiniti q45 TO 270,000 MILES and ecomodded for 200k of it.
Several thoughts:
1. I drove 'easier' than I would have normally, thus reducing the 'mnormal' wear and tear. At 200k miles and 9 yrs old, people who rode w/ me the first time couldn't believe how many miles I had.
2. ran a full upper grille block. ran taller tires(reducing rpms) and ran lighter oil. also had 2 small fans on a separate switch.

While op's brother makes some logical hypothetical points, the reality does not follow.
as a note: ran the original fan belt till around 200k+ and NEVER changed any hoses in 270k miles. But I ran a scangauge and always kept an eye on the coolant temp.

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