Electric cars, unclean at any speed

[jamesqf]

Another problem with the range-extending trailer, as opposed to an on-board system like the Volt, is that it requires you to always know in advance when you'll need the extra range. Now hereabout roads can be closed due to weather, fires, etc without much advance notice, and alternative routes might easily add 50+ miles to the length of a trip - and that could be 50 miles without services. So if you didn't bring your trailer the day your usual route is closed, you could be SOL.

[P-hack]

I wonder if AAA is ready for that.

EDIT: looks like they are sorting it out, mobile charging truck in a few areas already (or a tow to a charging station, can I regen on the way? ).
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/tec...ng-truck/5059/

[NachtRitter]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

That's not going to happen. The OEMs don't even have a standardized voltage with in their own company.
The only thing standardized is the input voltage to the charger. Usually its single phase 220. I am sure 3-phase 220v chargers exist or can be built for most battery systems.

From the plug (and voltage) side, SAE has a J1772 standard (see SAE J1772 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for an overview) which is being adopted by EV manufacturers and charging station manufacturers alike. Generally, it is a standardized connector that would be able to support several different standard voltages (currently it supports 120V and 240V AC single phase, and they are looking to add DC charging as well, potentially as high as 600V DC @ 400A). The EV would be able to detect what the supply side offers and use the optimum method for charging.

Unfortunately, most charging connectors are on the side of the EV, similar to the fuel fillup location of a modern ICE. Connecting a genset trailer would make it look like you're driving something out of Loopers. That would detract from the "occasional use via rental" aspect unless the auto manufacturers started to put the charging connector on the back (like some of the older US cars with the filler behind the license plate). Of course, if you're one of those DIYers and plan to be using a genset trailer on a regular basis, you could probably relocate the connector... but then you wouldn't care as much if it was standardized or not.

In answer to an earlier comment (raised by redpoint5), I see that one of the features of the J1772 connector is:

The signaling protocol has been designed so that ... vehicle detects plug via proximity circuit (thus the vehicle can prevent driving away while connected)

That's certainly a likely problem that the commercial EV manufacturers would want to avoid, so I would expect that having the genset plugged in and trying to drive would not be possible without some DIY tinkering.

[NachtRitter]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Another problem with the range-extending trailer, as opposed to an on-board system like the Volt, is that it requires you to always know in advance when you'll need the extra range. Now hereabout roads can be closed due to weather, fires, etc without much advance notice, and alternative routes might easily add 50+ miles to the length of a trip - and that could be 50 miles without services. So if you didn't bring your trailer the day your usual route is closed, you could be SOL.

I would suspect that someone living in such conditions would not likely purchase an EV that couldn't already handle the unexpected extra distance with the built-in capacity... Seems like a 'duh' to me.

[NachtRitter]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Good to rent, not so good to own. I don't think you would want hundreds if not thousands of dollars worth of batteries wasting away just from sitting in your drive way.

Wish I could find it again, but I just recently read an article where some construction sites were using solar + battery power systems as an alternative to running generators (obviously in locations where the power companies hadn't run any power yet). Something along these lines: Mobile Solar Power: Diesel Generator Alternative

If it's going to be used only once a year or less, with no other usage at all, you're right... no point in owning it. But if it could be used for other things, it could be worth it... UPS for a portion of your house's power, construction power supply, camping power supply, portable power in case of disaster, etc.

[RedDevil]

+1 on that. The EV trailer can be used as a big mobile UPS.
Even if the charging plug position or protocol prohibits charging while you drive, it could recharge the EV's batteries at any stop, anywhere, at the max rate both packs allow for. You'd have to stop after a few hours drive anyway, just to get some rest etc.

[P-hack]

OB:unclean
If EV enthusiasts don't care that their range extender is fuel inefficient by design, then that kinda makes the point

re: SAE J1772 that is good news. Of course I start thinking of all kinds of "improvements", i.e. if the charging stations could dynamically control the current and voltage based on feedback from the car (based on voltage/current feedback from the charger) then it would mean less circuitry needed in every car, just a $3 microcontroller that controls the charge profile instead of power circuitry, and it could have a unique identifier so they know which account to draw the funds from if it is a pay service.

And having driven off with the gas pump attached once, I am glad they thought of a proximity switch. But it does kinda kill this as a standard for battery trailer/on the go electrical source, even if you make a streamlined right angle J1772 connector.

[P-hack]

But I am terribly disappointed at the misinformation and almost religious devotion to series, and all the associated misinformation, special pleadings, and outright BS. It only reinforces the idea that EV'ers are completely indifferent to the upstream power source, and that driving the wheels directly is some sort of sin, even though it has far more potential, especially on long constant speed trips if you are carrying an engine.

For example, here is a page about the t-zero range extender: ACP AC Propulsion Series Range Extending Trailer prototype. Toyota Rav4-EV Hybrid prototype. Alan Cocconi. 2000 BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle). RXT-G. LongRanger. Hybrid Trailer. EV Range Extender. GenSet. "Stock configuration 42 MPG cross country series hybrid drive"?!? 42MPG, Really? with a picture of an SUV there? The thing is like $75k!!! and behind a small 1500lb car it only got 30-35. I call bullsh*t, major bullsh*t on these guys.

Meanwhile, Chancey spent $500 on an "unlimited" range civic pusher, and he is rolling. Please lets not ignore physics, or everything hypermilers have learned about driving efficiency, or speculate wildly about inefficient electrical torque conversions, pandering only to abstracting all power sources to a "pure" electric source and thinking ease of automation is the only other consideration.

There is no reason a microcontroller can't shift (including neutral/coast) and control throttle efficiently either and augment with the battery as well, my prius does it, but it is limited in efficiency BECAUSE of the constant part-series nature of the design, made for your average "idiot". Meanwhile a similarly sized and heavier 5 speed gen1 insight can kick the t-zeros (and priuses) ass in mpg, so can a rabbit or a metro or a lot of other "sinful" ICE cars, especially cross country, with no hypermiling even.

[Frank Lee]

But I am terribly disappointed at the misinformation and almost religious devotion to series, and all the associated misinformation, special pleadings, and outright BS. It only reinforces the idea that EV'ers are completely indifferent to the upstream power source, and that driving the wheels directly is some sort of sin, even though it has far more potential, especially on long constant speed trips if you are carrying an engine.

Yup.

[mechman600]

Originally Posted by P-hack

EV'ers are completely indifferent to the upstream power source...

Careful with blanket statements like this. Not all EV'ers think the same.

However, I recently spent time with the president of the local EV club, and it was as if NOTHING else mattered other than making sure every single person has an EV parked in the driveway. I was rather put off by it.

I read somewhere that an EV in India pollutes six times as much as a gasoline equivalent, thanks to a very dirty electrical grid. I'm sure it's not that bad in coal heavy parts of the US, but it certainly isn't good.