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Old 12-15-2018, 05:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snax View Post
$10k fuel tank: Seems a fair average cost, but consider that this is the cost for a new battery with full power and range
Every new car comes with a new battery. The reason why the $40k Bolt has a spartan interior and lacks some of the advanced features found on other $40k cars is because $10k went into the "fuel" tank.

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Weight: Less clear. My i3 weighs less than 2900 lbs with the range extender. The battery only version weighs just a hair over 2600. Much of that is owed to carbon fiber and aluminum construction, but as such, the battery is able to be significantly smaller and lighter as well.
The i3 was designed to be very lightweight and has a relatively small battery. Apply that same construction to an ICE vehicle and you'd get a slightly lower weight vehicle. I was mostly comparing "fuel" tanks though. A full gas tank might weigh 200 lbs. The Bolt battery is closer to 1,000 lbs.

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Fill time: Clear trade-off between local and extended miles driven.
Yes, filling while you sleep is an advantage. It's not an advantage when you are waiting for the tank to fill though, which was my point.

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Environmental Conditioning Requirement: Yes, and no. Over-hyped from what I have learned...

High summer temperatures are also being better handled with newer EVs, having abandoned schemes like Nissan's poor planning with air cooling for the early Leaf.
If you occasionally need a heating/cooling system for the "fuel tank", then you have to build the system, which adds cost. Gas tanks don't need heating and cooling ever, so they don't have environmental regulation built in.

The fact that the Nissan implementation was a disaster is proof that thermal management is not optional on an EV.

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Old 12-16-2018, 08:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
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In my experience I bought a Leaf for $12,000, but only paid $9,000 or so for it because of the Colorado Tax credit (which was available for used cars that year.) Most of my driving was off of free charging (Colorado is has lots of free charging.) Even on my 400 trip to Rifle I didn't pay a cent on electricity.

Over a year later I sold it for $7,000. So I lost about $2,000 on it. About what I would have paid in fuel.
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:10 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Take a gasser.
I just put gas in the wifes car. I filled it up from half, last time I put gas in it was late November. Only took about $20 to fill it all the way.
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Old 12-17-2018, 02:26 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Comparatively speaking, I'm now paying about $40 a week in gasoline. I did plug in at home sometimes in my electric car but only noticed the electric bill go up about $20 a month. The rest was free charging. So that's about $140 in savings per month in the electric car. In a year that's $1,680. If I had to replace the battery every 5 years I would have been tied. But here where I live in Colorado I expect a Leaf Battery could last 10 years.

But I don't think getting the wife to understand that we needed to creep along at 30mph down the highway with no heater for the next couple hours and still have a chance of needing a tow just so I could save that much money was really worth it.
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:10 AM   #25 (permalink)
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But I don't think getting the wife to understand that we needed to creep along at 30mph down the highway with no heater for the next couple hours and still have a chance of needing a tow just so I could save that much money was really worth it.
LOL. Yeah, not a compromise I am willing to make either really.

The difficult thing about EVs is that most people simply don't do the math on how they use the vehicles they have and what they really cost.

Clearly, EVs can still be stupid expensive in the wrong use case. In my case, I expect it to be more of a wash, but moreover, I am now driving a car that I can enjoy driving all year round. Had I purchased a used Leaf, I would absolutely be saving money right now compared to my other cars.
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:23 PM   #26 (permalink)
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The difficult thing about EVs is that most people simply don't do the math on how they use the vehicles they have and what they really cost.
I had done all the math. But then I had a life changing circumstance. So then I had to drive farther.
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:44 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I've seen Leaf owners in Vancouver, WA with a rapidly degrading battery. I really don't think the '11-'13 batteries weren't designed to hold up well. It's been a while since I looked into it, but I wonder how the so called lizard batteries have been holding up?

The i3 battery should hold up much better since it has active thermal management.

Heck, even my 3 kWh Prius battery has active management (a fan).

I'd say now is the time to get a new EV since the federal credit is reduced for Tesla starting in Jan, and reduced for Chevy starting April, with Nissan to follow shortly after. Once the credits expire for the big players, the used vehicles will hold value as the new market cools off (or tanks).

Now would also be the right time to buy used since they will be in short supply in the coming year.

One downside of EVs is the 1/3 drop in range in winter weather. My ICE vehicles might drop 1/10 in winter, so it seems EVs are affected much more drastically.
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:46 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Think of it as a glimpse into the future.
Pay 6 to 10 dollars a gallon for gas or drive electric.
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Old 12-17-2018, 04:29 PM   #29 (permalink)
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How long does it really take to change the oil and spark plugs? I can change the oil in my Civic without tools. Pop the hood, slide the pan under, release the QuickValve, stand up, unscrew the filter, and do something while everything drains.

Screw on a new filter, close the Fumoto, slide out the pan, screw in the cover, and top off the oil. It also gives me a chance to check out the undercarriage, but I guess that is not important with an electric vehicle.

Spark plugs? Pop the hood, pop the boots, and use my speed wrench to pull the plugs. Drop in new plugs, tighten, pop on the boots, and close the hood.

Also, I have a car that drives the same distance year after year.
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Old 12-17-2018, 04:30 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I'm not convinced the cost of gas will really rise much, but I think these guys are correct about the near future.



Whether critical mass for EV adoption will really impact oil prices or not isn't really addressed however.

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