Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-16-2008, 12:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,213

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.98 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 58.72 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,790
Thanked 6,626 Times in 3,437 Posts
Electric vs. Internal combustion showdown! EV wins... (barely)

At this time of year I often go down to a little park by the river to work in the car during the day (laptop).

For a while now the sun has been warm enough that the car stays pleasantly warm even on cool/cold days (YAY literal greenhouse effect!). So the car becomes my "office with a view", where I work over a pilfered wireless connection while watching the ice go out (it's nearly gone, except in the harbours & most sheltered bays) and the migrating birds coming north.

Usually I take the ForkenSwift, but Ivan has it this week, so I went in the Flea this morning.

Gave me an opportunity to do something I've been curious about for a while: comparing the relative energy consumption of the gasoline Firefly to the electric ForkenSwift.

The route ...

It's only 3.4 km (2.1) round trip.

Sub/urban route with a very short stretch (one block) on a busy road. I chose the route for the EV, so I could drive it under ideal conditions: usually no following traffic, so brisk acceleration not expected, and the ability to coast up to most stops (10 stops on the round trip) without braking.

Max speed is about 40 km/h (25 mph).

Avg speed is 18 km/h (11 mph).
ForkenSwift consumption ...

The fuel log entries for 2008-04-08 to 2008-04-10 pretty much encompass "commuting to the office" (haha) 2x per day (one stint in the AM, another after lunch), with a few other misc trips in pretty similar driving patterns.

107 mpg (US) equivalent is about the average of those 3 cycles is (as measured at the wall plug).
Blackfly consumption ...

I took the Flea this morning on the exact same "EV route", and from a cold (non block heater) start the round trip according to the ScanGauge was...

100 mpg dead even.
Interesting!

__________________
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: Oops, I did it again! Bought another cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage. Mods in progress...
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-16-2008, 03:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
EcoFodder
 
hvatum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 74

Jetta TDI - '00 VW Jetta
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wow, that's surprisingly close.

Any idea what the equivalent MPG would be on a cost basis, as in how much gas could the money you spent on electricity purchase you?

Also equivalent CO2 output would be interesting, that depends upon the source of the energy of course.
__________________
I put the animated icon together in Photoshop, feel free to use it if you like!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 03:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
ECO-Evolution
 
Lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,482

Iron Horse (retired) - '97 Iron horse Intrepid

Ninja - '08 Kawasaki 250R
90 day: 76.23 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 44 Times in 33 Posts
That is interesting with a block heater you might of beat it.

I've noticed with my bike that the efficiency goes way down on short trips. If I go 5 miles and recharge it's a lot worse then if I go 30 miles and recharge.

Was the EV on the same route or your just comparing you run in the flea to your around town avg. on the Forkenswift? I see it was the same route. Never mind
__________________
"Judge a person by their questions rather than their answers."


Last edited by Lazarus; 04-16-2008 at 03:44 PM.. Reason: reread post
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2008, 10:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
EV test pilot
 
bennelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oconomowoc, WI, USA
Posts: 4,435

Electric Cycle - '81 Kawasaki KZ440
90 day: 334.6 mpg (US)

S10 - '95 Chevy S10
90 day: 30.48 mpg (US)

Electro-Metro - '96 Ben Nelson's "Electro-Metro"
90 day: 129.81 mpg (US)

The Wife's Car - Plug-in Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
90 day: 78.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 658 Times in 384 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
That is interesting with a block heater you might of beat it.
So, the only way to beat an electric vehicle is with a vehicle that combines gasoline and electricity. Hmm some sort of a Hybrid, shall we call it?


I gotta say this is an unfair battle of cars. You have a homebrew electric with really beat up batteries vs a totally pimped-out ecomodder gas car.

Even if the numbers matched, I say the electric still wins because electricity can be renewable, tends to be much less polluting, and is quiet.

All those sort of "non-tangible" things always need to be factored in!
__________________


300mpg.org Learn how to BUILD YOUR OWN ELECTRIC CAR CHEAP
My YouTube Videos
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2008, 08:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,213

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.98 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 58.72 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,790
Thanked 6,626 Times in 3,437 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hvatum View Post
Any idea what the equivalent MPG would be on a cost basis, as in how much gas could the money you spent on electricity purchase you?
Good question. The EV is costing about 2.5 cents per mile for electricity @ 8 cents / kWh. With gasoline around $1.10/L or $4.15/gal US, it costs 4.15 cents per mile @ 100 mpg.

Quote:
Also equivalent CO2 output would be interesting, that depends upon the source of the energy of course.
When I drive it, the FS eats only the finest renewable energy, hydroelectric & wind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
That is interesting with a block heater you might of beat it.
I wonder... because to be fair I would have had to include the power usage

Quote:
I've noticed with my bike that the efficiency goes way down on short trips. If I go 5 miles and recharge it's a lot worse then if I go 30 miles and recharge.
I've noticed the same thing with the car. It's due to the charging algorithm - there are certain "overheads" in charging that I have to pay, regardless of whether I drove 1 km or 15. Spread it over 15 km and the overall energy picture is better. But it's harder on the batteries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bennelson View Post
I gotta say this is an unfair battle of cars. You have a homebrew electric with really beat up batteries vs a totally pimped-out ecomodder gas car.
Ding ding ding! You're absolutely correct!

This is in no way apples:apples. The gas car also has WAY better tires (LRR) on it, and is mechanically in perfect condition. In at least 3 points of the route I was able to keep coasting the Flea where I would have been driving the EV.

I suspect when we put the fresher battery pack back in the car this summer, there will be a noticeable jump in efficiency as well.

On top of that, the ForkenSwift has a bad front wheel bearing and the front wheel alignment is off. You should hear it!

In better condition, I'd expect the FS would be untouchable. We'll see - the bearing will be replaced this summer, the fresher pack installed, and I'll line up the front wheels. Maybe I'll even swap the Flea's LRR wheels/tires onto it just for an experiment.

I'm guessing 130 mpge...

__________________
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: Oops, I did it again! Bought another cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage. Mods in progress...
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com