Elon Musk's 'Tesla Home Batteries'

[California98Civic]

My hometown newspaper ran a buzzfeed-style update on the Tesla Powerpack (the reveal, I guess): Tesla's Powerwall: 12 important facts to know - The Orange County Register

[Arragonis]

If it works then it solves part of the problem with variability of supply when using renewables obviously.

Not convinced it could work longer term - for example in 2010 the UK renewables produced nothing for 2 weeks, no wind and solar covered in snow - could a Musk battery power homes for that long, and what do we do when it can't and the Gas/Coal plants have been closed ?

Its a 10-20 year potential but not now, so we need Gas/Coal in the mean time.

[freebeard]

It solves the storage problem. For your failure scenario —winter is coming— a well-rounded generation capability would include a Lister diesel on standby. They still make them in India, just ask for the good bearings.

[Arragonis]

Work that through.

After long enough the batteries all start to run out and suddenly millions of Diesel generators kick in. And those emit what exactly compared to Gas ?

This madness is real.

Plymouth diesel power stations 'to help green energy' - BBC News

Won't work here anyway as a large number of homes use Gas for heating.

[wickydude]

Batteries should help to stabilize the grid, instead of those diesel generators.
Over the last few years, Germany has had several thousand residential battery systems installed, similar to the Tesla power wall.

In addition, a 5MW battery plant has been in operation for a while now, like Tesla's Powerpack.
Younicos: Europe

Edit: this company already sells home units:
http://www.sonnenbattery.com/en/stro...speicher/home/

[NeilBlanchard]

Storage will help the grid now - conventional power plants are not the steady things that we somehow think they are. And storage along with solar PV will lower the need for peaker plants. Peaker plants are very expensive relative to the power they generate.

How can all the batteries fail at once? The Tesla batteries are warrantied for 10 years, and they will fail in onesies and twosies.

[Arragonis]

I think freebeard meant my failure scenario, which was actually a scenario where the charge just runs low or out and not that the batteries actually fail.

The Grid still needs more supply too, especially if everyone is going to start running around in leccy cars

EDIT - part of the EU plan for Leccy cars was to use their batteries to supply the grid if it got stuck!

[freebeard]

Actually I was mocking Arragonis' failure scenario. The correct solution is not creating and storing a large amount of electricity. It's creating a space with low energy requirements:

• Air moving in a toroidal motion in a hemispherical space
• At center top, a combination skylight/air vent/solar panel/vertical axis windmill
• All glazing layered solar electric, low-emissivity and photochromic from the outside in
• Electricity used for command and control, and heat pumps: not resistance heating

Beyond that I'm partial to a sea-steading semi-submersible made of Biorock. Because I talked to the inventor when he was alive and because I just found out that if you leave the electrical charge on it attracts crabs and fish.

High levels of dissolved oxygen make it particularly attractive to marine organisms, particularly fin fish.

So the outside and bottom would be a seafood trap.


Tidal power from an oscillating water column.

[deejaaa]

Originally Posted by freebeard

It solves the storage problem. For your failure scenario —winter is coming— a well-rounded generation capability would include a Lister diesel on standby. They still make them in India, just ask for the good bearings.

here's a list of parts/engines for sale in India:
Search Result - Lister
Chinese versions:
http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?...rchText=lister

[nimblemotors]

Well I think the only way this powerwall makes sense is if you have an electric car and solar panels, so you can store up the sun energy to charge the car, and not use any grid power to do it. I just don't see this as a big market at all,
as you can recharge your EV at night when rates are low.

The weight of such stationary battery systems is not a problem, so seems to me lead acid is just fine, and lead acid batteries recycle very easily already today, whereas, not sure how that works with lithium.
In fact, you can use zinc-air batteries for this, safe and cheap.
And many other options, some safer than others.

I'm all for making cheap lithium batteries (to use in EVs) and I'll thank musk for doing it, but it isn't innovation or anything like it, as some seem to think.