Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-02-2015, 01:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,237

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,356
Thanked 2,128 Times in 1,443 Posts
My hometown newspaper ran a buzzfeed-style update on the Tesla Powerpack (the reveal, I guess): Tesla's Powerwall: 12 important facts to know - The Orange County Register

__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-02-2015, 01:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
The PRC.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Elsewhere.
Posts: 5,304
Thanks: 285
Thanked 535 Times in 384 Posts
If it works then it solves part of the problem with variability of supply when using renewables obviously.

Not convinced it could work longer term - for example in 2010 the UK renewables produced nothing for 2 weeks, no wind and solar covered in snow - could a Musk battery power homes for that long, and what do we do when it can't and the Gas/Coal plants have been closed ?

Its a 10-20 year potential but not now, so we need Gas/Coal in the mean time.
__________________
[I]So long and thanks for all the fish.[/I]
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 02:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 19,631
Thanks: 5,503
Thanked 6,465 Times in 5,197 Posts
It solves the storage problem. For your failure scenario —winter is coming— a well-rounded generation capability would include a Lister diesel on standby. They still make them in India, just ask for the good bearings.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 05:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
The PRC.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Elsewhere.
Posts: 5,304
Thanks: 285
Thanked 535 Times in 384 Posts
Work that through.

After long enough the batteries all start to run out and suddenly millions of Diesel generators kick in. And those emit what exactly compared to Gas ?

This madness is real.

Plymouth diesel power stations 'to help green energy' - BBC News

Won't work here anyway as a large number of homes use Gas for heating.
__________________
[I]So long and thanks for all the fish.[/I]
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 08:46 AM   #15 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 90
Thanks: 12
Thanked 23 Times in 15 Posts
Batteries should help to stabilize the grid, instead of those diesel generators.
Over the last few years, Germany has had several thousand residential battery systems installed, similar to the Tesla power wall.

In addition, a 5MW battery plant has been in operation for a while now, like Tesla's Powerpack.
Younicos: Europe

Edit: this company already sells home units:
http://www.sonnenbattery.com/en/stro...speicher/home/
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 08:46 AM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,882

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,403
Thanked 2,901 Times in 1,819 Posts
Storage will help the grid now - conventional power plants are not the steady things that we somehow think they are. And storage along with solar PV will lower the need for peaker plants. Peaker plants are very expensive relative to the power they generate.

How can all the batteries fail at once? The Tesla batteries are warrantied for 10 years, and they will fail in onesies and twosies.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 10:50 AM   #17 (permalink)
The PRC.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Elsewhere.
Posts: 5,304
Thanks: 285
Thanked 535 Times in 384 Posts
I think freebeard meant my failure scenario, which was actually a scenario where the charge just runs low or out and not that the batteries actually fail.

The Grid still needs more supply too, especially if everyone is going to start running around in leccy cars

EDIT - part of the EU plan for Leccy cars was to use their batteries to supply the grid if it got stuck!
__________________
[I]So long and thanks for all the fish.[/I]
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 11:48 AM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 19,631
Thanks: 5,503
Thanked 6,465 Times in 5,197 Posts
Actually I was mocking Arragonis' failure scenario. The correct solution is not creating and storing a large amount of electricity. It's creating a space with low energy requirements:
  • Air moving in a toroidal motion in a hemispherical space
  • At center top, a combination skylight/air vent/solar panel/vertical axis windmill
  • All glazing layered solar electric, low-emissivity and photochromic from the outside in
  • Electricity used for command and control, and heat pumps: not resistance heating
Beyond that I'm partial to a sea-steading semi-submersible made of Biorock. Because I talked to the inventor when he was alive and because I just found out that if you leave the electrical charge on it attracts crabs and fish.
Quote:
High levels of dissolved oxygen make it particularly attractive to marine organisms, particularly fin fish.
So the outside and bottom would be a seafood trap.


Tidal power from an oscillating water column.

Last edited by freebeard; 05-03-2015 at 11:54 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 01:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
Not banned yet
 
deejaaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Texas Coast, close to Houston
Posts: 880

getto - '02 Volkswagen Jetta GLS TDI
90 day: 53.82 mpg (US)
Thanks: 413
Thanked 258 Times in 206 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
It solves the storage problem. For your failure scenario —winter is coming— a well-rounded generation capability would include a Lister diesel on standby. They still make them in India, just ask for the good bearings.
here's a list of parts/engines for sale in India:
Search Result - Lister
Chinese versions:
http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?...rchText=lister
__________________
FOR SALE: 02 TDI Jetta- 5 sp: Cooper CS5 at 50 psi, UltraGauge, ventectomy, rear air shocks, mufflerectomy, LED plate light, upper fiberglass grille block, front lower pan, front fairing.
93 Chevy CrewCab 6.5 TurboDiesel, GearVendor OverDrive, 4L80 w/ TCI controls. Now DailyDriver

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 03:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
EcoModding Jack
 
nimblemotors's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 335
Thanks: 12
Thanked 58 Times in 40 Posts
Well I think the only way this powerwall makes sense is if you have an electric car and solar panels, so you can store up the sun energy to charge the car, and not use any grid power to do it. I just don't see this as a big market at all,
as you can recharge your EV at night when rates are low.

The weight of such stationary battery systems is not a problem, so seems to me lead acid is just fine, and lead acid batteries recycle very easily already today, whereas, not sure how that works with lithium.
In fact, you can use zinc-air batteries for this, safe and cheap.
And many other options, some safer than others.

I'm all for making cheap lithium batteries (to use in EVs) and I'll thank musk for doing it, but it isn't innovation or anything like it, as some seem to think.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com