Elon Musk's 'Tesla Home Batteries'

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Actually I was mocking Arragonis' failure scenario. The correct solution is not creating and storing a large amount of electricity. It's creating a space with low energy requirements...

Thats a bit like saying if you want to go there I wouldn't start from here.

[user removed]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Thats a bit like saying if you want to go there I wouldn't start from here.

Or, you can't get there from here.

regards
mech

[user removed]

It's a method to make the battery cost seem less painful, by giving the tired battery a second useful life.

regards
mech

[Arragonis]

Tired battery ?

[redpoint5]

The home battery needs to reside in the vehicle, with the vehicle connected to the home when not in use. There is no sense in doubling the expense and resource consumption in batteries when a single set could perform double-duty.

I'd like to see batteries become more standardized and modular. Pull a battery unit out of the car and put it into the lawn mower. Get rid of individual batteries for every application and make the most use of that expensive investment in the vehicle. By making them modular, a vehicle could be purchased with a limited range, with the ability to expand the range as funds become available. This reduces the cost to enter the EV world while allowing for a path of expansion as the need arises. Not everyone needs the 250 mile range of a Tesla, and not everyone can get by with the limited range of the Leaf.

Modularity is the future. Lets build it now.

[user removed]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Tired battery ?

The first time I read about this, it was a use for a tired battery that had reached it's useful life expectancy when the electric car, in which it was originally installed, had lost enough range to make replacement necessary, thus increasing it's "useful" life expectancy.


regards
mech

[P-hack]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The home battery needs to reside in the vehicle, with the vehicle connected to the home when not in use. There is no sense in doubling the expense and resource consumption in batteries when a single set could perform double-duty.

Separate concerns, and applications.
1. A house doesn't need the same power density battery as a car.
2. A car needs to be charged to be useful, can't drain it overnight and expect to drive it the next day.
3. The house should still function when the car is not there (and have batteries available for storing daylight energy).

If anything the house needs a much larger battery, so it can charge the car overnight when it is home from energy stored during the day and supply the household needs overnight.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by P-hack

Separate concerns, and applications.
1. A house doesn't need the same power density battery as a car.

True. However, if a vehicle already has enough energy to supply the house in an emergency, then the extra expense of a separate house battery is unnecessary. While some people may find it worthwhile to have a separate house battery, those with more modest budgets would be best served to have their car battery pull double-duty.

2. A car needs to be charged to be useful, can't drain it overnight and expect to drive it the next day.

Intelligence must be programmed into the system so that the vehicle owner can specify the depth of discharge before the vehicle stops supplying energy to the house/grid. The utility should provide an economic incentive for the customer to volunteer a portion of the vehicles electricity, but allow the customer to determine what portion is needed for their driving needs.

3. The house should still function when the car is not there (and have batteries available for storing daylight energy).

Necessary for an off-grid home, but the vast majority of customers are on-grid. Schedule the vehicle to charge off-peak, but volunteer the vehicle energy to cover peak demands.

If anything the house needs a much larger battery, so it can charge the car overnight when it is home from energy stored during the day and supply the household needs overnight.

Peak leveling is more economically accomplished on a large scale. For off-grid, a battery is a necessity. For the majority of customers at the moment, a large-scale peak leveling mechanism is cheaper. Plugging in an EV to the grid is just an extra benefit to leverage a resource that already exists.

[P-hack]

Well even with bulk leveling, the problem persists relying on vehicle batteries, most of the storage batteries would be in use during the day. And expecting to be recharged at night.

Plus a stationary, non vibrating, battery in a climate controlled environment can be better optimized for it's role most likely. It should be allowed to develop under its own terms without vehiclular constraints. (though repurposing used car batteries is attractive)

I mean you could pump the solar back into the grid to offset power consumption during the day, but then they need lots of available batteries during the day. The musk show has panels on every roof, so the distribution needs are much less. It isn't necessarily off grid, but reduced grid dependancy (with off grid option if the power company is cost prohibitive).

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Modularity is the future. Lets build it now.

Having fuel in liquid form at ambient temperature is going to be very hard to beat in terms of flexibility or convenience. Maybe combining a "standard" (EDIT: I mean a standardized modular form as you describe) battery with this could help :

CES 2015: The charger that boosts battery in seconds - BBC News

Still think the grid capacity issue needs to be solved first, my bet is on newer nuclear tech.