The End of Car Culture?

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by 101Volts

...And I speak from liking of a 1984 Caprice Classic which I drive which has Manual windows, Manual locks and frozen up A/C so that's part of where I'm coming from...

When I drove taxis back east, they were all early 1980s Chevy Caprice 4-door sedans. I remember them very well. I spent many many hours behind the wheel of one or another.

[Grant-53]

Car culture has changed in the last fifty years. The focus on what makes for a desirable car has shifted. Safety and costs of operation have taken priority over acceleration. Small cars have gotten bigger and big cars have gotten smaller. There is more world marketing than a battle for US market share by Detroit's big three. The effect of Japanese thinking on marketing and quality has had a profound effect. Raw power has taken a back seat to value for money hence the popularity of the Toyota Corolla versus the pony cars or the grand sedans of the past. The modern Impala gets twice the fuel economy of the 1960's models. The ride of the modern small car is impressive even compared to land yachts of yesteryear. Cornering and braking are improved greatly. The modern car is more capable and yet more tame or refined therefore less exciting.

[Occasionally6]

Originally Posted by niky

I'll disagree, for the most part about automatics. They can be made to meet emissions testing much more easily due to the free pass the EPA gives them in terms of shift points, but in the real world, automatics still don't quite match manuals with good drivers, especially in traffic.

I think in terms of exhaust emissions it's easier to mask hanging the throttle open (or the equivalent of) during an on-off transition in a car with a TC. Fair comment about the real world fuel consumption though.

Originally Posted by 101Volts

And I speak from liking of a 1984 Caprice Classic which I drive which has Manual windows, Manual locks and frozen up A/C so that's part of where I'm coming from.

There is a certain appeal to simplicity. I get that. Some things (some) cars are fitted with these days are ridiculous - like motors for closing the door or trunk so they don't have to be shut with any force. Motors for adjusting seating and steering wheel position (with memory, for multiple drivers) are a bit easier to justify but still borderline.

It's hard to argue against the convenience of being able to unlock doors remotely and wind down and up a window with a single button press (like at parking lot boom gates) though.

In some parts of the world A/C is almost a necessity and can be justified on safety grounds, as reducing the stress on a driver thus aiding concentration.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by 101Volts

Is it just my view on things or are a lot of cars today too luxurious? I prefer hand-crank (Manual) windows and not too much luxury; The more luxury there is to a car, The more there is to go wrong or that's how I look at it; Take the power windows, Power seats and air conditioning for examples and you might know what I'm talking about.

Here in the 3rd-world, many folks survive with no-frills cars. Nowadays the A/C became considered quite a safety feature, supposed to reduce the exposure of the driver to urban violence (altough it's not so accurate), but it's not unusual to see some vehicles fitted only with weathershields to allow the windows to keep partially open while reducing the driver's exposure, and also useful to avoid the windows to frost. I still also see some brand-new cars without heater.

[gone-ot]

Many years ago, in the early 1950's, my father, who was in USNavy at that time, was stationed at Coco Solo, in Panama, and bought a brand new Studebaker Coupe while we were there. The car was made in Canada and came with NO heater, so when we moved back to USA dad had to have a heater installed, which, rather curiously, went under the passenger's seat -- so, mom always was sitting on the "hot seat."

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

Many years ago, in the early 1950's, my father, who was in USNavy at that time, was stationed at Coco Solo, in Panama, and bought a brand new Studebaker Coupe while we were there. The car was made in Canada and came with NO heater, so when we moved back to USA dad had to have a heater installed, which, rather curiously, went under the passenger's seat -- so, mom always was sitting on the "hot seat."

Wait... Canadian-made car with no heater?

But the heater arrangement under a seat instead of inside the cab air box is really an odd arrangement...

[gone-ot]

Not back in 1951! Canada manufactured Studebaker's "export" models, and Panama was/is a foreign country to both USA and Canada.

I realize these aren't picture-evidence, but evidence nevertheless:

• http://www.parts123.com/0001003a/524...ing-524853.htm

• http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1052558

[101Volts]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

When I drove taxis back east, they were all early 1980s Chevy Caprice 4-door sedans. I remember them very well. I spent many many hours behind the wheel of one or another.

I know the car rides pretty well on long trips and I've never rode in a taxi, But are/were those models (Early 80s models) that well-suited as taxi cabs? I was told that thieves tried to steal the one I drive so they could use it as an unlicensed taxi cab, But that was before my parents got it.

Originally Posted by Occasionally6

There is a certain appeal to simplicity. I get that. Some things (some) cars are fitted with these days are ridiculous - like motors for closing the door or trunk so they don't have to be shut with any force. Motors for adjusting seating and steering wheel position (with memory, for multiple drivers) are a bit easier to justify but still borderline.

It's hard to argue against the convenience of being able to unlock doors remotely and wind down and up a window with a single button press (like at parking lot boom gates) though.

In some parts of the world A/C is almost a necessity and can be justified on safety grounds, as reducing the stress on a driver thus aiding concentration.

I can see use of the A/C to be useful in some situations, Now. Actually, All of the options have their use in certain places. But still, The car with the least options has the least to go wrong in it.

If a window won't go up and it's winter, You're probably going to be cold on the way home.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Here in the 3rd-world, many folks survive with no-frills cars. Nowadays the A/C became considered quite a safety feature, supposed to reduce the exposure of the driver to urban violence (altough it's not so accurate), but it's not unusual to see some vehicles fitted only with weathershields to allow the windows to keep partially open while reducing the driver's exposure, and also useful to avoid the windows to frost. I still also see some brand-new cars without heater.

Thanks for the info.

[DodgeDually]

The culture of the car is alive and well in middle income countries. The cult of the car is even embraced and welcomed by these developing counties. While it may be declining in in the U.S. due to regulations, high insurance, peer pressure....
I fondly remember my first car car, a 1969 Z28 Camaro, 20+ mpg hwy, my second car a 1967 Chevelle, and a 1980 full size Suburban that got 16+ mpg hwy long before Eco modding was popular.

[brucepick]

Originally Posted by 101Volts

Is it just my view on things or are a lot of cars today too luxurious? I prefer hand-crank (Manual) windows and not too much luxury; The more luxury there is to a car, The more there is to go wrong or that's how I look at it; Take the power windows, Power seats and air conditioning for examples and you might know what I'm talking about. I'm not saying "Let's all drive '49 Chevys", Just that to have new cars with fewer options would be nice. I haven't gone browsing brand new cars either, So do take my reply here as what it is and not necessarily holy; I'm just a guy posting on the internet.

My theory on this is, its almost unavoidable. People who buy new cars want nice stuff, otherwise they would buy older worn ones. So they're more likely to want bells and whistles. We on the downstream end of it are more likely to want something cost-efficient but the manufacturers build for those who buy new. Just my opinion of course.