Engineering Explained:Why Tesla's Are Bad at Towing

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The topic of the thread is why Tesla's are bad at towing, and the conclusion is that batteries suck and need to get better, much better.

I expanded the topic by mentioning it's not just energy capacity that matters, but how quickly it can be replenished. If it could be replenished very quickly, it matters less how big the "tank" is.

The point of a trailer isn't to be as aerodynamically efficient as possible, but to haul the intended cargo in a given footprint and weight rating. There's no "solution", only trade-offs.

The reason trailers don't have regen is because only 3% of vehicles are EV in the first place, and they already have regen built in. Redundantly adding it to a trailer adds weight, complexity and cost. It's not that it hasn't been thought of already, it's that people thought about it and then realized it was dumb.

I agree, no matter how many watts you stuff into a battery the lmitation is currently how fast you can stuff in those watts. Towing X trailer at T speed is going to use a set amount of watts. Then to put those watts back in is going to take time limited by the voltage an amps you can put through the cables, the BMS, the bus bars, into the cells, etc.

I think what many don't realize is how inefficient towing a standard trailer is. So sure we can triple or quadruple the price of a standard trailer to make it more efficient, it still will always be a drag. I guess people paying $100,000 for a EV pickup have $100,000 more for their camper, but damn, $200,000 buys a lot of nights in a hotel or VRBO.

Maybe a solution would be to fill the campgrounds with permanent tiny homes that people rent. Still my preferred camping is boondocking outside of campgrounds off the grid.

I do look forward to camper manufacturing starting to concentrate on aerodynamics to help solve the EV towing problem. That will help even those who still choose to tow with gas or diesel. Because refilling 200 miles of range with an ICE towing a big box takes 5 minutes, so it's not the time but the cost that is the problem. Getting you to Yellowstone park on 1/2 the money is good, but not if you have to spend 1/2 your precious vacation time off sitting at a charger.

[aerohead]

Thanks for reminding me why we have climate change, why we had to 'invent' the electric vehicle, why we're unlikely to ever do anything about it, and why I'm within a whisker of leaving EcoModer.com.

[redpoint5]

Climate changed before humans, and it will change after humans. That's not an argument against concerning oneself with mitigating/minimizing the harm; only to put it in perspective of a problem among an infinite amount of problems.

We'd have EVs even if we hadn't imagined a climate emergency. They're more efficient, and there's built-in incentive to improve efficiency of all things. No need to contrive reasons to improve efficiency; they are inherent to life itself.

Just because I don't identify with your brand of religion doesn't me we can't be friends. Heck, I disagree with a ton of stuff I do, and I haven't cancelled myself yet.

[Hersbird]

To me Eco means economy, but to others it means ecology. Very clever name whoever came up with it.

I personally think improved economy gives you improved ecology on the big scale. Of course you can improve ecology by spending too but there is a limit if you approach it that way.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by aerohead

# 200 (permalink)
Thanks for reminding me why we have climate change, why we had to 'invent' the electric vehicle, why we're unlikely to ever do anything about it, and why I'm within a whisker of leaving EcoModer.com.

Made me look.

"17. I hope for fusion one day too. It's not enough to have an idea, it must become reality."

So you are both pinning your hopes on some science fiction pipe dream, when Thorium fission has been demonstrated since 1957. I don't know why I put up with this place.

I find nothing in the post about this climate change theory you espouse. Electric vehicles came first. And Wally Byam did something about it.



Hawley Bolus did something about it.

Originally Posted by Hersbird

So sure we can triple or quadruple the price of a standard trailer to make it more efficient, it still will always be a drag.

If it triples or quadruples the price you are doing it wrong. If it increases instead of decreases the drag you are doing it wrong. Make the horses lay down for the trip. Sedate them if needed.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Made me look.

"17. I hope for fusion one day too. It's not enough to have an idea, it must become reality."

So you are both pinning your hopes on some science fiction pipe dream, when Thorium fission has been demonstrated since 1957. I don't know why I put up with this place.

I find nothing in the post about this climate change theory you espouse. Electric vehicles came first. And Wally Byam did something about it.



Hawley Bolus did something about it.





If it triples or quadruples the price you are doing it wrong. If it increases instead of decreases the drag you are doing it wrong. Make the horses lay down for the trip. Sedate them if needed.

I expect the future to be better because technology pretty much always advances. As I've stated elsewhere, I'm notoriously bad and predicting which technology wins out in the future, or how quickly it's adopted. Most people who make correct predictions are simply lucky guessers. A true prediction would explain in detail exactly how some condition in the future comes about, and provides an accurate time frame for all of those pieces. That's the reason why central planning doesn't work; because no single person or small group is capable of optimizing for the future.

I too found the claim that we invented EVs because of climate change to be laughable, as if humanity invented electricity and the light bulb because whales were becoming scarce.

Funny, just after my last post I was envisioning a single horse trailer where the horse was forced to lay down, head first so the cover could taper towards the rear. Why not just section the horse so it stacks nicely on a Harbor Freight trailer and fits in the wake of the vehicle? Anything for The Environment as if there ever was just 1 environment to consider.

[freebeard]

Two hour delta, it must be in the air.

Most people who make correct predictions are simply lucky guessers. A true prediction would explain in detail exactly how some condition in the future comes about, and provides an accurate time frame for all of those pieces.

Scott Adams talks about lived experience and how it's hard to extrapolate to some specific end. He's been really humble lately, since he reported an old story. But he did talk about the human brain cell exobot that plays Pong. As soon as there are two playing each other, they are [humans] living in a simulation.

The fact that I have not been proven right about cell phones and Facebook --yet-- is not conclusive.

[Hersbird]

If it were all about climate we would kill all the horses and eat them. Their emissions are terrible and they eat and drink natural resources.

But because of economic reasons driving their existence, people leave undeveloped huge plots of land just so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor with a horse or 10.

Of course they will probably shoot the heads off every prairie dog that pokes up eliminating a natural animal to replace it with an invasive species.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Made me look.

"17. I hope for fusion one day too. It's not enough to have an idea, it must become reality."

So you are both pinning your hopes on some science fiction pipe dream, when Thorium fission has been demonstrated since 1957. I don't know why I put up with this place.

I find nothing in the post about this climate change theory you espouse. Electric vehicles came first. And Wally Byam did something about it.



Hawley Bolus did something about it.





If it triples or quadruples the price you are doing it wrong. If it increases instead of decreases the drag you are doing it wrong. Make the horses lay down for the trip. Sedate them if needed.

I'm just going by what Airstream charges compared to Jayco or Forest River. I also would argue that even an Airstream is not aerodynamic enough to solve the problem. It's going to require both aerodynamic shape and reducing it's size while towing like a Hi-Lo. I do think an Airstream type could be made less expensive, like how a Scamp is made but even a tiny Scamp is more expensive than a standard size Jayco or Forest River. When you are on the lot, most people will pick the lower price and huge space of a traditional box on wheels. Only later when they see that 7 MPG do they realize it may not be as cool as they thought.

[Xist]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I haven't cancelled myself yet.

I'm offended! It's called "Death by cancelation!"