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Old 12-14-2007, 03:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
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The problem IMO is that doesn't illustrate fossil fuel consumption, which depends heavily on diet. We all know that oil extraction/refining eff=~80-85%, but the fossil fuel equivalent we use when cycling depends, more than anything else, on diet.

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Old 12-14-2007, 08:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
The problem IMO is that doesn't illustrate fossil fuel consumption, which depends heavily on diet. We all know that oil extraction/refining eff=~80-85%, but the fossil fuel equivalent we use when cycling depends, more than anything else, on diet.
You're right about the energy to produce food and that riding a bicycle does not mean that you are using no fuel but the average american eats 3700 calories a day. The average bike commute is 10 miles round trip. This is not going to change the amount of food eaten then normal (IMO). From my experience my diet became much better when I started to ride and I was eating less meat which is the real energy killer.
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Old 12-14-2007, 09:24 AM   #13 (permalink)
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That's a slippery slope yer on IMO. Whether or not people overeat is immaterial to how much fossil fuel equivalent they use if they bike, which depends on their diet. We could just as easily say that we're gonna burn "X" amount of gasoline anyway, so there's no point in driving more fuel efficient cars. IMO we should look at the well to wheels, so to speak, eff for any fuel source. Also, meat may not be too bad depending on where it came from. I mean, it's no potato, but it's also not lettuce.
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Old 12-23-2007, 10:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
  • A simple comparison, showing the proportion of biking vs. driving
[LIST]
I think this is the best way to go, there are just too many variables with the other way.

I think it would be cool to have the "cyclelog" and gaslog kinda combined. By this I mean that when you add a new gaslog entry, have a prompt for updating mileage for your cyclelog(s)



Then, compare miles driven (on that tank) with miles biked during that same time period. You can compare as a percentage and then (if we get all fancy) graph it over time.
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Old 12-23-2007, 11:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Do those computers tell you how much energy you put through the crank - or how much energy you expend.... I trained/fit cyclist is about 25% efficient (according to the research I've done for the HPV competition/design reports) - so if those power meters don't compensate for that... you'll have to multiply by at least a factor of 4...

Quote:
The problem IMO is that doesn't illustrate fossil fuel consumption, which depends heavily on diet. We all know that oil extraction/refining eff=~80-85%, but the fossil fuel equivalent we use when cycling depends, more than anything else, on diet.
AND, where you get your food.... Lets say, perhaps hypothetically, I practice freeganism and get a sizable portion of my food from - a dumpster, for instance... How does that equate into the grand scheme of things?


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I second (or third or whatever) the motion do do a comparison/ratio of cycling to driving... Perhaps have a gallons displaced based on the FE at the time of miles on bike? Of course, my commuting will be a bit more efficient compared to most of the rest of you - no hills and very very small grades
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Old 12-24-2007, 12:06 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I'd just like to an incentive for using bikes on this site, and I think a separate "total" MPG box for all vehicles in our garage would be very enlightening to members here.
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Old 12-24-2007, 10:12 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Nice graphic, Andrew.

I was talking this over with Ben, and we decided a bike log will be the next addition to the garage, following the Trip Log (which is in the works and just about ready).

Peakster: I kind of chucked at the notion that you might need a website tool to give you an incentive to ride more... Maybe I'm reading more from your comment than you meant. Because... I'm like that: sometimes a little incentive finally gets me to do something when the "big" incentive couldn't get me going in the first place.

Anyway... I'll post back to this thread with progress updates on the cycle log when I get going on it.
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Old 12-24-2007, 12:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Time to get that triplog active, darin!

I think the main thing we need to remember going forward with some sort of cyclog is that whatever we choose to do the calculations we will inevitably be in odds to someone else doing them, so we shouldn't necessarily freak out with it, but rather try to do a good job and be transparent about how the equivalents are calculated.
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Old 12-25-2007, 05:51 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet03 View Post
AND, where you get your food.... Lets say, perhaps hypothetically, I practice freeganism and get a sizable portion of my food from - a dumpster, for instance... How does that equate into the grand scheme of things?
It's essentially the same as getting oil from restaurants for bio-diesel. A great initiative, but not scalable.
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Old 12-27-2007, 12:53 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet03 View Post
AND, where you get your food.... Lets say, perhaps hypothetically, I practice freeganism and get a sizable portion of my food from - a dumpster, for instance... How does that equate into the grand scheme of things?
I would say that if you can honestly and truly say that your fuel is going to be wasted anyway, then sure, why bother? But for that to be the case IMO you would need to go the extra mile and advertise the food for free on CL or something, and have no place to donate it to, for it to be "free" energy. I take this same approach wrt WVO/etc FWIW...

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