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Old 02-08-2010, 11:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shovel
...5-10% fewer miles per gallon...And my cars run super awesome on it!
When I hear super awesome, I usually think about 5-10% MORE mpg. That 11% cheaper figure probably fluctuates quite a bit depending on where you are too. I thought Christ's analogy was spot on; I don't understand how you wouldn't get it.

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Old 02-08-2010, 11:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Might as well continue the thread drift.
Darin, how much more is the premium fuel that's clean? Curious about the break even point.
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Might as well continue the thread drift.
Darin, how much more is the premium fuel that's clean? Curious about the break even point.
Also curious, though I don't live in Canadia or have the opportunity to obtain ethanol fuels (short of washing, which Nerys hasn't reported back on, yet, and I assume will be a waste of time.)
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Feel like doin' some math, eh?

Recent prices at one station: $0.921 / L for regular, and $1.066 / L for premium.
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:02 AM   #15 (permalink)
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$.92+$.092 = $1.012 cost for regular per liter if 10% ethanol is "washed" from it.

Edited because I forgot a "0".
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Last edited by Christ; 02-09-2010 at 12:22 PM..
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Anti-ethanol agenda?

Some people don't like the fact that with ethanol, you're getting lower energy density ... without the benefit of lower cost.
it is a weakling little fuel. does great in cold for initial starts, and that is about it.

I wondered about maines version...

Quote:
(AUGUSTA)—It’s not by state mandate, but it’s here. By early next week, most gas stations will be selling fuel containing 10% ethanol, a domestic product made from fermenting certain agricultural crops and wood. A combination of federal regulatory requirements, tax incentives and market forces accounts for the fuel distributors’ business decision to supply the new blend, taking some drivers by surprise and prompting questions about performance and environmental impact.

Many of those questions have come to the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) because of agency efforts to reduce air pollution through control of emissions from cars and trucks. Although the State does not require the sale of ethanol-blended gasoline, DEP has developed a web site (MaineDEP.com) to help address the most common inquiries.

Most often heard is “what is it?” Ethanol is what is known as a “renewable fuel”, meaning that it is made from crops and materials that are not in finite supply, like oil. In gasoline, it performs as an effective octane enhancer and also serves to reduce harmful emissions.

Another common question is about performance-- how use of the blended fuel can affect vehicles, motorized boats and other gasoline powered equipment. By far the vast majority of engines should not encounter any performance related problems; however, users of the fuel can expect about a 3% loss of fuel economy.

In addition, some engine/fuel system components in older (pre 1980) engines may not be compatible with ethanol. For instance, certain types of rubber used in seals and hoses may deteriorate more rapidly when exposed to ethanol blended gasoline.

For boat owners, ethanol, being a solvent, may scour fuel systems, overburden filters and breakdown certain fiberglass gas tanks. Anyone who has questions about their vehicles, boats, motorcycles, snowmobiles, ATVs, lawn and garden equipment should contact the engine manufacturer. For more information about ethanol blended gasoline, go to MaineDEP.com
fermented wood. Great. I wonder where the diesel additive comes into play...
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:13 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Feel like doin' some math, eh?

Recent prices at one station: $0.921 / L for regular, and $1.066 / L for premium.
No I thought you would.

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Old 02-09-2010, 08:57 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
$.92+$.092 = $1.12 cost for regular per liter if 10% ethanol is "washed" from it.

Seems like it's actually going to be cheaper to get premium, hombre!
That's 1.012. It's not cost effective.
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:22 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Haven't heard back from the author of the Star piece, so I wrote to Shell Canada. They confirmed that premium is ethanol free:

Quote:
At present our premium gasoline, Shell V-Power, is free of ethanol Canada wide.

Regards.

Xavier Henry
Technical Help Desk
Fuels & Lubricants
Shell Lubricants - Canada
I wonder if we'll be seeing a marketing campaign in the future promoting the fuel economy benefits of their premium blend. It would dovetail nicely into existing positive urban myths about premium gasolines.
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:19 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tasdrouille View Post
That's 1.012. It's not cost effective.
LOL. I still do that once in awhile. That's probably why I'm not an engineer. Can you imagine missing a 0 in the tens place on a blueprint for... say... a building?

Anyway, if you add in another 3% for the fuel economy that you're no longer losing compared to the gasoline/ethanol blend, it brings it up to 1.04, which is close enough that it probably will at least break even in most cases.

Although, I may have that backwards... do you subtract another 3% from the cost because you're getting 3% better FE?

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